Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

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Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)

Hi Dolibarr developers.


Time to start the beta of the next major version has come. The release candidate version should be ready for January, so as usual, we must start the beta period few month ago, so now.
To follow modern pratice about namin convention, next major version followin the 4.0 will be called 5.0 and not 4.1. I still don't know why we spent so many times (10 years) to increase the second level of number used commonly to describe a minor chane when it was major release, but well, late is better than never.

So, starting from this week-end, the beta period for 5.0 will be launched. No new features will be added from PR.

As usual, "started development" are allowed to be continued to be finished for final release. Work on not stable modules are also still opened because such modules won't be visible by users.  Among works already started and that are qualified to continue to push PR that are not bu fixed, we may find:

- work on advanced accountancy (double party) module,  

- multicurrency module

- work to simplify code to support oauth

- website module

- management of a VAT code to be able to distinguish different VAT with same rate

- theme enhancement to be more responsive designed

- uniformization of the look and feel and usae of the dol_banner for all tabs.

- translation changes

- changes required to allow package generations


After the freeze, new features will be suspended until the branch for 5.0 is created. Then merging PR for new features will be possible again into develop branch.

Also, architecture, reenginering, or best practice code enhancements will be discarded during this period. Instead any help is welcome to fix all opened bug: See https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/issues

More information on what a "freeze" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap


Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external modules, so you can already check your external modules are still working with this version.

A Changelog (not yet detailed with coming new features) is available in the current development branch that will be used to start the freeze to give information on what was changed and may need attention of external developers or upgraders.


Also, note that a maintenance version, version 4.0.2 was released few days ago to provide recent fixes available for branch 4.0.

More information on what a "maintenance version" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap


Laurent Destailleur, aka Eldy


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Re: Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

charles benke.fr

As reading on module

Accountancy : experimental

Multicurrency : develop

 

So call IT as you want IS NOT  A MAJOR VERSION

 

You speak that “Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external modules, “ witch external modules have you tested? All present in the dolistore?

 

I would have preferred that we work more on the stability of previous major versions to continue this headlong counterproductive.

I hope them we can discuss how the project is managed, it is time after 10 years actually change ...

 

 

 

Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke

 

De : Dolibarr-dev [mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr=[hidden email]] De la part de Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
Envoyé : mardi 8 novembre 2016 00:11
À : ML Dolibarr dev <[hidden email]>
Objet : [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

 

 

Hi Dolibarr developers.

 

 

Time to start the beta of the next major version has come. The release candidate version should be ready for January, so as usual, we must start the beta period few month ago, so now.

To follow modern pratice about namin convention, next major version followin the 4.0 will be called 5.0 and not 4.1. I still don't know why we spent so many times (10 years) to increase the second level of number used commonly to describe a minor chane when it was major release, but well, late is better than never.

 

So, starting from this week-end, the beta period for 5.0 will be launched. No new features will be added from PR.

 

As usual, "started development" are allowed to be continued to be finished for final release. Work on not stable modules are also still opened because such modules won't be visible by users.  Among works already started and that are qualified to continue to push PR that are not bu fixed, we may find:

- work on advanced accountancy (double party) module,  

- multicurrency module

- work to simplify code to support oauth

- website module

- management of a VAT code to be able to distinguish different VAT with same rate

- theme enhancement to be more responsive designed

- uniformization of the look and feel and usae of the dol_banner for all tabs.

- translation changes

- changes required to allow package generations

 

After the freeze, new features will be suspended until the branch for 5.0 is created. Then merging PR for new features will be possible again into develop branch.

Also, architecture, reenginering, or best practice code enhancements will be discarded during this period. Instead any help is welcome to fix all opened bug: See https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/issues

More information on what a "freeze" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap

 

Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external modules, so you can already check your external modules are still working with this version.

 

A Changelog (not yet detailed with coming new features) is available in the current development branch that will be used to start the freeze to give information on what was changed and may need attention of external developers or upgraders.

 

 

Also, note that a maintenance version, version 4.0.2 was released few days ago to provide recent fixes available for branch 4.0.

 

More information on what a "maintenance version" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap

 

 

Laurent Destailleur, aka Eldy

 

 

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Re: Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

charles benke.fr

This will be my last post on the subject because I'm tired of wasting my time and to also lose the other, a French version is available at the bottom of this message because my English is too rots

 

I would like to address two notions someone does not understand that is the financial aspect and the marketing aspect of a project management, Usually managed by the Product Manager

On the financial side must understand that time and necessarily the money that is used by developers, integrators and users to update their environment each mounted major versions are not invested in the development of new functionality and search reliability

- How an integrator for example it can monetize time spent know a version of dolibarr if after 6 months he must start from zero?

- This is why the major functionality we all expect (the advanced accounting, multi-currency, ...) are still not present in the stable release in the core: the community spends time updating its versions

In short, the major technical version output timing is counterproductive and flange willingness to invest in dolibarr without dolibarr investment gold will not continue to grow ...

 

On the marketing side, change the numbering rules without giving any explanation to the community (which can not be reduced just to the mailing list of developers ...) is a bad method, misleading limit, because it is believed that there is novelty in dolibarr whereas there is no functionally.

 

At one point we must understand that the project manager to work is not a technique, it is also financial and marketing gold Dolibarr on this aspect is really lagging. Not taking into account two parameters in the roadmap, version numbering is counterproductive.

 

I therefore propose that the next devcamp December to be debated Valencia two points:

- The Roadmap major technical versions of Dolibarr that must be passed to a version a year only and ideally by the end of June / early July to enable the integrator / advanced users willing to go up anomalies during the summer and offer the a new version of the more stable and reliable for September, the most active period for implementing an ERP.

- A numbering where the first number is the major functional versions of Dolibarr, the second major issue technical version and the latest patch releases

 

Hoping that some end up taking consience it's not just developers who use dolibarr ...

 

------

 

Ce sera mon dernier message sur le sujet car j'en ai assez de perdre mon temps et de faire perdre aussi celui des autres, une version en français est disponible en bas de ce message car mon anglais est trop pourrit

 

J'aimerai aborder deux notions quelqu'un ne semble pas comprendre à savoir l'aspect financier et l'aspect marketing d'une gestion de projet, généralement géré par un chef de produit.

Sur l'aspect financier il faut comprendre que le temps et forcément l'argent qui est utilisé par les développeurs, intégrateurs et utilisateurs pour mettre à jour leur environnement à chaque monté de versions majeurs n'est pas investie dans le développement de nouvelle fonctionnalité et la recherche de fiabilité

- comment un intégrateur par exemple peut-il rentabiliser le temps passé à connaitre une version de dolibarr si au bout de 6 mois il doit tout reprendre de zéro?

- c'est la raison pour laquelle les fonctionnalité majeures que nous attendons tous (la comptabilité avancé, le multidevise, ...) ne sont toujours pas présente en version stable dans le core : la communauté passe du temps à mettre à jour ses versions

Bref, ce timing de sortie de version technique majeur est contreproductif et bride la volonté d'investir dans dolibarr, or sans investissement dolibarr ne pourra continuer de se développer...

 

Sur l'aspect marketing, changer les règles ne numérotation sans donner la moindre explication à la communauté (qui ne se résume pas juste à la mailing list des développeurs...) est une mauvaise méthode, limite mensongère, car elle fait croire qu'il y a de la nouveauté dans dolibarr alors qu'il n'y en a pas fonctionnellement.

 

A un moment il faut comprendre que le travail de chef de projet n'est pas que technique, il est aussi financier et marketing, or sur cette aspect Dolibarr est vraiment à la traine. Ne pas prendre en compte ses deux paramètres dans le roadmap, la numérotation des versions est contreproductive.

 

C'est pourquoi je propose que lors du prochain devcamp de décembre à Valence soit débattue deux points :

- Le Roadmap des versions techniques majeurs de Dolibarr qui doit être passée à une version par an seulement et idéalement pour la fin juin/début juillet afin de permettre au intégrateur/utilisateurs avancées de bonne volonté de remonter les anomalies durant la période estivale et offrir au novice une version des plus stable et fiable pour la rentrée, période la plus active pour mettre en place un ERP.

- Une numérotation où le premier numéro correspond aux versions majeures fonctionnelles de dolibarr, le deuxième numéro aux version majeures techniques et le dernier aux versions de correctifs

 

En espérant que certains finissent par prendre consience qu'il n'y a pas que des développeurs qui utilisent dolibarr ...

 

Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke

 

De : Dolibarr-dev [mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr=[hidden email]] De la part de Charles Benke
Envoyé : mardi 8 novembre 2016 13:32
À : 'Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and coding' <[hidden email]>
Objet : Re: [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

 

As reading on module

Accountancy : experimental

Multicurrency : develop

 

So call IT as you want IS NOT  A MAJOR VERSION

 

You speak that “Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external modules, “ witch external modules have you tested? All present in the dolistore?

 

I would have preferred that we work more on the stability of previous major versions to continue this headlong counterproductive.

I hope them we can discuss how the project is managed, it is time after 10 years actually change ...

 

 

 

Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke

 

De : Dolibarr-dev [[hidden email]] De la part de Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
Envoyé : mardi 8 novembre 2016 00:11
À : ML Dolibarr dev <[hidden email]>
Objet : [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

 

 

Hi Dolibarr developers.

 

 

Time to start the beta of the next major version has come. The release candidate version should be ready for January, so as usual, we must start the beta period few month ago, so now.

To follow modern pratice about namin convention, next major version followin the 4.0 will be called 5.0 and not 4.1. I still don't know why we spent so many times (10 years) to increase the second level of number used commonly to describe a minor chane when it was major release, but well, late is better than never.

 

So, starting from this week-end, the beta period for 5.0 will be launched. No new features will be added from PR.

 

As usual, "started development" are allowed to be continued to be finished for final release. Work on not stable modules are also still opened because such modules won't be visible by users.  Among works already started and that are qualified to continue to push PR that are not bu fixed, we may find:

- work on advanced accountancy (double party) module,  

- multicurrency module

- work to simplify code to support oauth

- website module

- management of a VAT code to be able to distinguish different VAT with same rate

- theme enhancement to be more responsive designed

- uniformization of the look and feel and usae of the dol_banner for all tabs.

- translation changes

- changes required to allow package generations

 

After the freeze, new features will be suspended until the branch for 5.0 is created. Then merging PR for new features will be possible again into develop branch.

Also, architecture, reenginering, or best practice code enhancements will be discarded during this period. Instead any help is welcome to fix all opened bug: See https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/issues

More information on what a "freeze" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap

 

Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external modules, so you can already check your external modules are still working with this version.

 

A Changelog (not yet detailed with coming new features) is available in the current development branch that will be used to start the freeze to give information on what was changed and may need attention of external developers or upgraders.

 

 

Also, note that a maintenance version, version 4.0.2 was released few days ago to provide recent fixes available for branch 4.0.

 

More information on what a "maintenance version" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap

 

 

Laurent Destailleur, aka Eldy

 

 

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Re: Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
In reply to this post by charles benke.fr
The status of new module you mention is the status when the freeze start.
It is only at the end of the beta we can know if they are moved with stable status.

Also a major version is not necessarly a version with a new module. You probably decide this yourself but it is not.


So please again, stop trying to deny Dolibarr project by providing false information on this mailing list and trying to cunfusing other readers.

Hi community, it seems we have a new Dark Vador in Dolibarr galaxy !





2016-11-08 13:32 GMT+01:00 Charles Benke <[hidden email]>:

As reading on module

Accountancy : experimental

Multicurrency : develop

 

So call IT as you want IS NOT  A MAJOR VERSION

 

You speak that “Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external modules, “ witch external modules have you tested? All present in the dolistore?

 

I would have preferred that we work more on the stability of previous major versions to continue this headlong counterproductive.

I hope them we can discuss how the project is managed, it is time after 10 years actually change ...

 

 

 

Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke

 

De : Dolibarr-dev [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] De la part de Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
Envoyé : mardi 8 novembre 2016 00:11
À : ML Dolibarr dev <[hidden email]>
Objet : [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

 

 

Hi Dolibarr developers.

 

 

Time to start the beta of the next major version has come. The release candidate version should be ready for January, so as usual, we must start the beta period few month ago, so now.

To follow modern pratice about namin convention, next major version followin the 4.0 will be called 5.0 and not 4.1. I still don't know why we spent so many times (10 years) to increase the second level of number used commonly to describe a minor chane when it was major release, but well, late is better than never.

 

So, starting from this week-end, the beta period for 5.0 will be launched. No new features will be added from PR.

 

As usual, "started development" are allowed to be continued to be finished for final release. Work on not stable modules are also still opened because such modules won't be visible by users.  Among works already started and that are qualified to continue to push PR that are not bu fixed, we may find:

- work on advanced accountancy (double party) module,  

- multicurrency module

- work to simplify code to support oauth

- website module

- management of a VAT code to be able to distinguish different VAT with same rate

- theme enhancement to be more responsive designed

- uniformization of the look and feel and usae of the dol_banner for all tabs.

- translation changes

- changes required to allow package generations

 

After the freeze, new features will be suspended until the branch for 5.0 is created. Then merging PR for new features will be possible again into develop branch.

Also, architecture, reenginering, or best practice code enhancements will be discarded during this period. Instead any help is welcome to fix all opened bug: See https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/issues

More information on what a "freeze" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap

 

Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external modules, so you can already check your external modules are still working with this version.

 

A Changelog (not yet detailed with coming new features) is available in the current development branch that will be used to start the freeze to give information on what was changed and may need attention of external developers or upgraders.

 

 

Also, note that a maintenance version, version 4.0.2 was released few days ago to provide recent fixes available for branch 4.0.

 

More information on what a "maintenance version" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap

 

 

Laurent Destailleur, aka Eldy

 

 

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Re: Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

charles benke.fr

In the star wars saga, the emperor was the one to make decisions, the Jedi had a council governing collegially…

 

May the force be with you…

 

Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke

 

De : Dolibarr-dev [mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr=[hidden email]] De la part de Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
Envoyé : mardi 8 novembre 2016 21:07
À : Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and coding <[hidden email]>
Objet : Re: [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

 

The status of new module you mention is the status when the freeze start.

It is only at the end of the beta we can know if they are moved with stable status.

 

Also a major version is not necessarly a version with a new module. You probably decide this yourself but it is not.

 

 

So please again, stop trying to deny Dolibarr project by providing false information on this mailing list and trying to cunfusing other readers.

 

Hi community, it seems we have a new Dark Vador in Dolibarr galaxy !

 

 

 

 

 

2016-11-08 13:32 GMT+01:00 Charles Benke <[hidden email]>:

As reading on module

Accountancy : experimental

Multicurrency : develop

 

So call IT as you want IS NOT  A MAJOR VERSION

 

You speak that “Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external modules, “ witch external modules have you tested? All present in the dolistore?

 

I would have preferred that we work more on the stability of previous major versions to continue this headlong counterproductive.

I hope them we can discuss how the project is managed, it is time after 10 years actually change ...

 

 

 

Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke

 

De : Dolibarr-dev [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] De la part de Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
Envoyé : mardi 8 novembre 2016 00:11
À : ML Dolibarr dev <[hidden email]>
Objet : [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

 

 

Hi Dolibarr developers.

 

 

Time to start the beta of the next major version has come. The release candidate version should be ready for January, so as usual, we must start the beta period few month ago, so now.

To follow modern pratice about namin convention, next major version followin the 4.0 will be called 5.0 and not 4.1. I still don't know why we spent so many times (10 years) to increase the second level of number used commonly to describe a minor chane when it was major release, but well, late is better than never.

 

So, starting from this week-end, the beta period for 5.0 will be launched. No new features will be added from PR.

 

As usual, "started development" are allowed to be continued to be finished for final release. Work on not stable modules are also still opened because such modules won't be visible by users.  Among works already started and that are qualified to continue to push PR that are not bu fixed, we may find:

- work on advanced accountancy (double party) module,  

- multicurrency module

- work to simplify code to support oauth

- website module

- management of a VAT code to be able to distinguish different VAT with same rate

- theme enhancement to be more responsive designed

- uniformization of the look and feel and usae of the dol_banner for all tabs.

- translation changes

- changes required to allow package generations

 

After the freeze, new features will be suspended until the branch for 5.0 is created. Then merging PR for new features will be possible again into develop branch.

Also, architecture, reenginering, or best practice code enhancements will be discarded during this period. Instead any help is welcome to fix all opened bug: See https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/issues

More information on what a "freeze" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap

 

Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external modules, so you can already check your external modules are still working with this version.

 

A Changelog (not yet detailed with coming new features) is available in the current development branch that will be used to start the freeze to give information on what was changed and may need attention of external developers or upgraders.

 

 

Also, note that a maintenance version, version 4.0.2 was released few days ago to provide recent fixes available for branch 4.0.

 

More information on what a "maintenance version" mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap

 

 

Laurent Destailleur, aka Eldy

 

 

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Re: Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

Yannick Warnier
Hi Charles,

I would try to avoid suggesting that you should answer this, so just so
you know I'm just explaining, I'm not trying to launch you on another
Star Destroyer campaign to destroy the current structure of the Dolibarr
project.

You seem to be new to the way Open Source works. If you do not agree
with the way things are handled and you think you can do better, you are
completely free to fork the project. That's just in case you didn't know.

Open Source development just works in a different way because, as
opposed to closed-source software developed inside a single company,
there is no way to have all contributors timelines match, so the status
of one version is never "completely finished" for all modules. It might
be upsetting to you, but it's the way it works. This is the case for
huge projects, not only Dolibarr.

Regarding Darth Vador, as the leaders of the Ubuntu project once put it,
Open Source is *not* a democracy, it's a meritocracy based on
contributions and helpfulness to others.

Democracy may work for governments and the political sphere, but in
software communities, what counts is that you can ensure the project
continues to work in the long run, and that is done by enforcing a very
precise balance between too little rules and too many rules. If you set
too many rules, chances are new people will not get involved into the
project. If you set too little rules, people will do whatever they like
and you'll end up with hundreds of forks and bloated forums.

Laurent has been driving the Dolibarr project for years now. With the
help of many, yes, but nevertheless, Dolibarr would probably have
disappeared without him providing the necessary stability to the
software contributions, forum, etc.
As such, and as far as I am aware, Laurent is the biggest BDFL of
Dolibarr. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life

Pretending to come after a few months of activity on the project and
wanting to change everything is not going to work because that happened
before and those same people who came and shouted for changes went away
and the project continued without them.

I myself worked on Dolibarr in 2004 or so and I'm still around reading
your posts (and still using Dolibarr as well), see?
Although the way the project is handled or some technical stuff might
not please me, I personally don't see think following the changes you
suggest will bring anything substantially different. As Laurent said,
you can already choose the rythm of your upgrades yourself.

If what you want is to reduce your amount of work to integrate modules,
please consider that this is likely to increase the amount of work of
others. Of course, you could go and try to demonstrate that it won't,
but the time you will take to demonstrate that will render the time
gained by applying the suggested changes useless.

Seeing how this discussion drags on and there's little written support
for Laurent, I thought I'd voice the thoughts of other people reading
this and not wanting to take part because we have better things to do
with our lives.

Thanks Laurent for your patience, as always. Most appreciated.

--
Cheers,

Yannick Warnier
BDSL and association's elected president
Chamilo project



Le 08/11/16 à 15:50, Charles Benke a écrit :

> In the star wars saga, the emperor was the one to make decisions, the
> Jedi had a council governing collegially…
>
>
>
> May the force be with you…
>
>
>
> Bien cordialement,
>
> Charlie Benke
>
>
>
> *De :*Dolibarr-dev
> [mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr=[hidden email]] *De la part
> de* Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
> *Envoyé :* mardi 8 novembre 2016 21:07
> *À :* Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and coding
> <[hidden email]>
> *Objet :* Re: [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2
>
>
>
> The status of new module you mention is the status when the freeze start.
>
> It is only at the end of the beta we can know if they are moved with
> stable status.
>
>
>
> Also a major version is not necessarly a version with a new module. You
> probably decide this yourself but it is not.
>
>
>
>
>
> So please again, stop trying to deny Dolibarr project by providing false
> information on this mailing list and trying to cunfusing other readers.
>
>
>
> Hi community, it seems we have a new Dark Vador in Dolibarr galaxy !
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2016-11-08 13:32 GMT+01:00 Charles Benke <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
>     As reading on module
>
>     Accountancy : experimental
>
>     Multicurrency : develop
>
>
>
>     So call IT as you want IS NOT  A MAJOR VERSION
>
>
>
>     You speak that “Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour
>     with external modules, “ witch external modules have you tested? All
>     present in the dolistore?
>
>
>
>     I would have preferred that we work more on the stability of
>     previous major versions to continue this headlong counterproductive.
>
>     I hope them we can discuss how the project is managed, it is time
>     after 10 years actually change ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     Bien cordialement,
>
>     Charlie Benke
>
>
>
>     *De :*Dolibarr-dev [mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr
>     <mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces%2Bcharles.fr>=[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>] *De la part de* Laurent Destailleur
>     (aka Eldy)
>     *Envoyé :* mardi 8 novembre 2016 00:11
>     *À :* ML Dolibarr dev <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     *Objet :* [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2
>
>
>
>
>
>     Hi Dolibarr developers.
>
>
>
>
>
>     Time to start the beta of the next major version has come. The
>     release candidate version should be ready for January, so as usual,
>     we must start the beta period few month ago, so now.
>
>     To follow modern pratice about namin convention, next major version
>     followin the 4.0 will be called 5.0 and not 4.1. I still don't know
>     why we spent so many times (10 years) to increase the second level
>     of number used commonly to describe a minor chane when it was major
>     release, but well, late is better than never.
>
>
>
>     So, starting from this week-end, the beta period for 5.0 will be
>     launched. No new features will be added from PR.
>
>
>
>     As usual, "started development" are allowed to be continued to be
>     finished for final release. Work on not stable modules are also
>     still opened because such modules won't be visible by users.  Among
>     works already started and that are qualified to continue to push PR
>     that are not bu fixed, we may find:
>
>     - work on advanced accountancy (double party) module,
>
>     - multicurrency module
>
>     - work to simplify code to support oauth
>
>     - website module
>
>     - management of a VAT code to be able to distinguish different VAT
>     with same rate
>
>     - theme enhancement to be more responsive designed
>
>     - uniformization of the look and feel and usae of the dol_banner for
>     all tabs.
>
>     - translation changes
>
>     - changes required to allow package generations
>
>
>
>     After the freeze, new features will be suspended until the branch
>     for 5.0 is created. Then merging PR for new features will be
>     possible again into develop branch.
>
>     Also, architecture, reenginering, or best practice code enhancements
>     will be discarded during this period. Instead any help is welcome to
>     fix all opened bug: See https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/issues
>
>     More information on what a "freeze"
>     mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap
>
>
>
>     Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external
>     modules, so you can already check your external modules are still
>     working with this version.
>
>
>
>     A Changelog (not yet detailed with coming new features) is available
>     in the current development branch that will be used to start the
>     freeze to give information on what was changed and may need
>     attention of external developers or upgraders.
>
>
>
>
>
>     Also, note that a maintenance version, version 4.0.2 was released
>     few days ago to provide recent fixes available for branch 4.0.
>
>
>
>     More information on what a "maintenance version"
>     mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap
>
>
>
>
>
>     Laurent Destailleur, aka Eldy
>
>
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Google+: https://plus.google.com/+LaurentDestailleur-Open-Source-Expert/
>
>     Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/eldy10
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Dolibarr-dev mailing list
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/dolibarr-dev
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> EMail: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> Web: http://www.destailleur.fr
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+LaurentDestailleur-Open-Source-Expert/
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Destailleur.Laurent
>
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/eldy10
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> * Dolibarr (Project leader): http://www.dolibarr.org (make a donation
> for Dolibarr project via Paypal: [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>)
>
> * AWStats (Author) : http://awstats.sourceforge.net (make a donation for
> AWStats project via Paypal: [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>)
>
> * AWBot (Author) : http://awbot.sourceforge.net
>
> * CVSChangeLogBuilder (Author) : http://cvschangelogb.sourceforge.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dolibarr-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/dolibarr-dev
>

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Re: Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

Sasa Ostrouska


On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 12:16 AM, Yannick Warnier <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Charles,

I would try to avoid suggesting that you should answer this, so just so you know I'm just explaining, I'm not trying to launch you on another Star Destroyer campaign to destroy the current structure of the Dolibarr project.

You seem to be new to the way Open Source works. If you do not agree with the way things are handled and you think you can do better, you are completely free to fork the project. That's just in case you didn't know.

Open Source development just works in a different way because, as opposed to closed-source software developed inside a single company, there is no way to have all contributors timelines match, so the status of one version is never "completely finished" for all modules. It might be upsetting to you, but it's the way it works. This is the case for huge projects, not only Dolibarr.

Regarding Darth Vador, as the leaders of the Ubuntu project once put it, Open Source is *not* a democracy, it's a meritocracy based on contributions and helpfulness to others.

Democracy may work for governments and the political sphere, but in software communities, what counts is that you can ensure the project continues to work in the long run, and that is done by enforcing a very precise balance between too little rules and too many rules. If you set too many rules, chances are new people will not get involved into the project. If you set too little rules, people will do whatever they like and you'll end up with hundreds of forks and bloated forums.

Laurent has been driving the Dolibarr project for years now. With the help of many, yes, but nevertheless, Dolibarr would probably have disappeared without him providing the necessary stability to the software contributions, forum, etc.
As such, and as far as I am aware, Laurent is the biggest BDFL of Dolibarr. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life

Pretending to come after a few months of activity on the project and wanting to change everything is not going to work because that happened before and those same people who came and shouted for changes went away and the project continued without them.

I myself worked on Dolibarr in 2004 or so and I'm still around reading your posts (and still using Dolibarr as well), see?
Although the way the project is handled or some technical stuff might not please me, I personally don't see think following the changes you suggest will bring anything substantially different. As Laurent said, you can already choose the rythm of your upgrades yourself.

If what you want is to reduce your amount of work to integrate modules, please consider that this is likely to increase the amount of work of others. Of course, you could go and try to demonstrate that it won't, but the time you will take to demonstrate that will render the time gained by applying the suggested changes useless.

Seeing how this discussion drags on and there's little written support for Laurent, I thought I'd voice the thoughts of other people reading this and not wanting to take part because we have better things to do with our lives.

Thanks Laurent for your patience, as always. Most appreciated.

--
Cheers,

Yannick Warnier
BDSL and association's elected president
Chamilo project

I could not resist, very well written and explained. This is also my opinion, there was so many times the same problem with the same person, but the reality is, that as Yannick said, fork it if you are not satisfied and do it your own baby.

Rgds
Saxa
 



Le 08/11/16 à 15:50, Charles Benke a écrit :
In the star wars saga, the emperor was the one to make decisions, the
Jedi had a council governing collegially…



May the force be with you…



Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke



*De :*Dolibarr-dev
[mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] *De la part
de* Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
*Envoyé :* mardi 8 novembre 2016 21:07
*À :* Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and coding
<[hidden email]>
*Objet :* Re: [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2



The status of new module you mention is the status when the freeze start.

It is only at the end of the beta we can know if they are moved with
stable status.



Also a major version is not necessarly a version with a new module. You
probably decide this yourself but it is not.





So please again, stop trying to deny Dolibarr project by providing false
information on this mailing list and trying to cunfusing other readers.



Hi community, it seems we have a new Dark Vador in Dolibarr galaxy !











2016-11-08 13:32 GMT+01:00 Charles Benke <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>>:

    As reading on module

    Accountancy : experimental

    Multicurrency : develop



    So call IT as you want IS NOT  A MAJOR VERSION



    You speak that “Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour
    with external modules, “ witch external modules have you tested? All
    present in the dolistore?



    I would have preferred that we work more on the stability of
    previous major versions to continue this headlong counterproductive.

    I hope them we can discuss how the project is managed, it is time
    after 10 years actually change ...







    Bien cordialement,

    Charlie Benke



    *De :*Dolibarr-dev [mailto:[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>=[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>] *De la part de* Laurent Destailleur
    (aka Eldy)
    *Envoyé :* mardi 8 novembre 2016 00:11
    *À :* ML Dolibarr dev <[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>>
    *Objet :* [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2





    Hi Dolibarr developers.





    Time to start the beta of the next major version has come. The
    release candidate version should be ready for January, so as usual,
    we must start the beta period few month ago, so now.

    To follow modern pratice about namin convention, next major version
    followin the 4.0 will be called 5.0 and not 4.1. I still don't know
    why we spent so many times (10 years) to increase the second level
    of number used commonly to describe a minor chane when it was major
    release, but well, late is better than never.



    So, starting from this week-end, the beta period for 5.0 will be
    launched. No new features will be added from PR.



    As usual, "started development" are allowed to be continued to be
    finished for final release. Work on not stable modules are also
    still opened because such modules won't be visible by users.  Among
    works already started and that are qualified to continue to push PR
    that are not bu fixed, we may find:

    - work on advanced accountancy (double party) module,

    - multicurrency module

    - work to simplify code to support oauth

    - website module

    - management of a VAT code to be able to distinguish different VAT
    with same rate

    - theme enhancement to be more responsive designed

    - uniformization of the look and feel and usae of the dol_banner for
    all tabs.

    - translation changes

    - changes required to allow package generations



    After the freeze, new features will be suspended until the branch
    for 5.0 is created. Then merging PR for new features will be
    possible again into develop branch.

    Also, architecture, reenginering, or best practice code enhancements
    will be discarded during this period. Instead any help is welcome to
    fix all opened bug: See https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/issues

    More information on what a "freeze"
    mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap



    Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external
    modules, so you can already check your external modules are still
    working with this version.



    A Changelog (not yet detailed with coming new features) is available
    in the current development branch that will be used to start the
    freeze to give information on what was changed and may need
    attention of external developers or upgraders.





    Also, note that a maintenance version, version 4.0.2 was released
    few days ago to provide recent fixes available for branch 4.0.



    More information on what a "maintenance version"
    mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap





    Laurent Destailleur, aka Eldy





    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Google+: https://plus.google.com/+LaurentDestailleur-Open-Source-Expert/

    Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/eldy10

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    Dolibarr-dev mailing list
    [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
    https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/dolibarr-dev





--

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Destailleur.Laurent

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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for Dolibarr project via Paypal: [hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>)

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AWStats project via Paypal: [hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>)

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Re: Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

olivier geffroy
Hi all

as I say before, I like the eldy's way and if someone want to go slowly don't upgrade. 

For accountancy, the 2017 crowdfunding will start next week (We are close to finish the magento and the link between my dolibarr and magento for this operation --> thanks to eldy for his module and hubz   ^^)

We want to improve 

* accountancy (bookkeeping, multi journal, european VAT..)
* immobilization
* bank (import from csv)
* vat statement ("declaration")
* salary
* stripe payment (we have paybox, but stripe is the new outsider and it will be nice to have it in the core of dolibarr)

In january we will launch the crowdfunding in english, german and spanish (juenjo contact me ^^)

All the improvment for accountancy in 5.0 made by eldy will be downgrade in 4.???

And everything we code will be in 4.??? and 5.???

aspangaro and darkjeff (I love darkside, sorry)

2016-11-16 11:31 GMT+01:00 Sasa Ostrouska <[hidden email]>:


On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 12:16 AM, Yannick Warnier <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Charles,

I would try to avoid suggesting that you should answer this, so just so you know I'm just explaining, I'm not trying to launch you on another Star Destroyer campaign to destroy the current structure of the Dolibarr project.

You seem to be new to the way Open Source works. If you do not agree with the way things are handled and you think you can do better, you are completely free to fork the project. That's just in case you didn't know.

Open Source development just works in a different way because, as opposed to closed-source software developed inside a single company, there is no way to have all contributors timelines match, so the status of one version is never "completely finished" for all modules. It might be upsetting to you, but it's the way it works. This is the case for huge projects, not only Dolibarr.

Regarding Darth Vador, as the leaders of the Ubuntu project once put it, Open Source is *not* a democracy, it's a meritocracy based on contributions and helpfulness to others.

Democracy may work for governments and the political sphere, but in software communities, what counts is that you can ensure the project continues to work in the long run, and that is done by enforcing a very precise balance between too little rules and too many rules. If you set too many rules, chances are new people will not get involved into the project. If you set too little rules, people will do whatever they like and you'll end up with hundreds of forks and bloated forums.

Laurent has been driving the Dolibarr project for years now. With the help of many, yes, but nevertheless, Dolibarr would probably have disappeared without him providing the necessary stability to the software contributions, forum, etc.
As such, and as far as I am aware, Laurent is the biggest BDFL of Dolibarr. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life

Pretending to come after a few months of activity on the project and wanting to change everything is not going to work because that happened before and those same people who came and shouted for changes went away and the project continued without them.

I myself worked on Dolibarr in 2004 or so and I'm still around reading your posts (and still using Dolibarr as well), see?
Although the way the project is handled or some technical stuff might not please me, I personally don't see think following the changes you suggest will bring anything substantially different. As Laurent said, you can already choose the rythm of your upgrades yourself.

If what you want is to reduce your amount of work to integrate modules, please consider that this is likely to increase the amount of work of others. Of course, you could go and try to demonstrate that it won't, but the time you will take to demonstrate that will render the time gained by applying the suggested changes useless.

Seeing how this discussion drags on and there's little written support for Laurent, I thought I'd voice the thoughts of other people reading this and not wanting to take part because we have better things to do with our lives.

Thanks Laurent for your patience, as always. Most appreciated.

--
Cheers,

Yannick Warnier
BDSL and association's elected president
Chamilo project

I could not resist, very well written and explained. This is also my opinion, there was so many times the same problem with the same person, but the reality is, that as Yannick said, fork it if you are not satisfied and do it your own baby.

Rgds
Saxa
 



Le 08/11/16 à 15:50, Charles Benke a écrit :
In the star wars saga, the emperor was the one to make decisions, the
Jedi had a council governing collegially…



May the force be with you…



Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke



*De :*Dolibarr-dev
[mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] *De la part
de* Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
*Envoyé :* mardi 8 novembre 2016 21:07
*À :* Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and coding
<[hidden email]>
*Objet :* Re: [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2



The status of new module you mention is the status when the freeze start.

It is only at the end of the beta we can know if they are moved with
stable status.



Also a major version is not necessarly a version with a new module. You
probably decide this yourself but it is not.





So please again, stop trying to deny Dolibarr project by providing false
information on this mailing list and trying to cunfusing other readers.



Hi community, it seems we have a new Dark Vador in Dolibarr galaxy !











2016-11-08 13:32 GMT+01:00 Charles Benke <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>>:

    As reading on module

    Accountancy : experimental

    Multicurrency : develop



    So call IT as you want IS NOT  A MAJOR VERSION



    You speak that “Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour
    with external modules, “ witch external modules have you tested? All
    present in the dolistore?



    I would have preferred that we work more on the stability of
    previous major versions to continue this headlong counterproductive.

    I hope them we can discuss how the project is managed, it is time
    after 10 years actually change ...







    Bien cordialement,

    Charlie Benke



    *De :*Dolibarr-dev [mailto:[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>=[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>] *De la part de* Laurent Destailleur
    (aka Eldy)
    *Envoyé :* mardi 8 novembre 2016 00:11
    *À :* ML Dolibarr dev <[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>>
    *Objet :* [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2





    Hi Dolibarr developers.





    Time to start the beta of the next major version has come. The
    release candidate version should be ready for January, so as usual,
    we must start the beta period few month ago, so now.

    To follow modern pratice about namin convention, next major version
    followin the 4.0 will be called 5.0 and not 4.1. I still don't know
    why we spent so many times (10 years) to increase the second level
    of number used commonly to describe a minor chane when it was major
    release, but well, late is better than never.



    So, starting from this week-end, the beta period for 5.0 will be
    launched. No new features will be added from PR.



    As usual, "started development" are allowed to be continued to be
    finished for final release. Work on not stable modules are also
    still opened because such modules won't be visible by users.  Among
    works already started and that are qualified to continue to push PR
    that are not bu fixed, we may find:

    - work on advanced accountancy (double party) module,

    - multicurrency module

    - work to simplify code to support oauth

    - website module

    - management of a VAT code to be able to distinguish different VAT
    with same rate

    - theme enhancement to be more responsive designed

    - uniformization of the look and feel and usae of the dol_banner for
    all tabs.

    - translation changes

    - changes required to allow package generations



    After the freeze, new features will be suspended until the branch
    for 5.0 is created. Then merging PR for new features will be
    possible again into develop branch.

    Also, architecture, reenginering, or best practice code enhancements
    will be discarded during this period. Instead any help is welcome to
    fix all opened bug: See https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/issues

    More information on what a "freeze"
    mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap



    Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external
    modules, so you can already check your external modules are still
    working with this version.



    A Changelog (not yet detailed with coming new features) is available
    in the current development branch that will be used to start the
    freeze to give information on what was changed and may need
    attention of external developers or upgraders.





    Also, note that a maintenance version, version 4.0.2 was released
    few days ago to provide recent fixes available for branch 4.0.



    More information on what a "maintenance version"
    mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap





    Laurent Destailleur, aka Eldy





    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Google+: https://plus.google.com/+LaurentDestailleur-Open-Source-Expert/

    Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/eldy10

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    Dolibarr-dev mailing list
    [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
    https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/dolibarr-dev





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Re: Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

charles benke.fr
In reply to this post by Sasa Ostrouska

I'm sorry to have to answer to Yannick, in French bellow

 

- My goal is not to destroy the current structure but to alert on the fact that Dolibarr is evolving. To see it, just look at the number of dolibarr downloads on Sourceforge: in 2009 it was 5000 / month, we are currently at 25000 / month: https://sourceforge.net/projects/dolibarr/files/stats/timeline?sates=2009-01-01+to+2016-11-16

- The structure and processes / roadmap that was enough ten years ago are no longer suitable. We do not manage a group of 4 contributors performing 3000 commit per year as we do for 75 contributors by realizing 8000 ...

- I know the subject of the open source (I can give my CV if needed) and if I allow myself to be (too) insistent, it is because I measure the destructive impact that a fork would have today: The hour is not to divide but rather to stick together.

- I do not seek to take power (and if I have not been more involved in the project and the association, it is for personal reasons that I do not wish to develop here), I do not criticize Laurent's work That I would be quite incapable of doing (would he like to do mine ...), just make this mulehead understand that the environment of dolibarr is evolving and that it is necessary to evolve. I am aware that my request will generate more work, the question is not to ask Laurent to work more but to think about for us to absorb this extra workload.

- Meritocracy is also to recognize each person's talents and to use them to move forward. By dint of persisting on the same path, they will eventually leave elsewhere (with or without fork)

- I am not complaining about the workload related to its upgrades too fast (my modules are more regularly updated than dolibarr ...), but the integrators and users of dolibarr: OUR CUSTOMERS, those who allow us to earn our living thanks to dolibarr !!! If we do not take a minimum of attention to their claims, we will return to our solitary developments

- One more thing, it is not a few months but a few years that I get involved in the project dolibarr (cf my contrib on github) : I’m not Dark Vador, but I hope, Princess Lea ;-)

 

Regard

Charlie Benke

 

French Translation

 

Désolée de devoir répondre à Yannick

 

-          Mon but n'est pas de détruire la structure actuelle mais d’alerter sur le fait que Dolibarr est en train d'évoluer. Pour le constater,il suffit de regarder le nombre de téléchargement de dolibarr sur Sourceforge : en 2009 il était 5000/mois , nous sommes actuellement à 25000/mois : https://sourceforge.net/projects/dolibarr/files/stats/timeline?dates=2009-01-01+to+2016-11-16

-          La structure et les process/roadmap qui suffisait il y a dix ans ne sont plus adapté. On ne gère pas un groupe de 4 contributeurs réalisant 4000 commit par an comme on le fait pour 75 contributeurs en réalisant 8000…

-          Je pense bien connaitre le sujet de l’open source (je peut t’envoyer mon CV si besoin) et si je me permets d’être (trop) insistante, c’est que je mesure l’impact destructeur qu’aurait un fork aujourd’hui : L’heure n’est pas à diviser mais au contraire de nous serrer les coudes.

-          Je ne cherche pas prendre le pouvoir (et si je ne me suis pas plus impliquée dans le projet et l’association, c’est pour des raisons personnelles que je ne souhaite pas développer ici), je ne critique pas le travail de Laurent que je serai bien incapable de faire (souhaiterait-il faire le mien d’ailleurs…), juste faire comprendre à cette tête de mule que l’environnement de dolibarr évolue et qu’il est nécessaire d’évoluer. J’ai conscience que ma demande générera plus de travail, la question n’est pas de demander à Laurent travailler plus mais de réfléchir pour NOUS permettre d’absorber cette charge de travail supplémentaire.

-          La méritocratie c’est de reconnaitre aussi à chacun ses talents et à force de s’entêter sur la même voie, ils finiront par partir ailleurs (avec ou sans fork)

-          Ce n’est pas moi qui me plaint de la charge de travail liée à ses montées de version trop rapide (mes modules sont d’ailleurs plus régulièrement mis à jours que dolibarr…), mais les intégrateurs et les utilisateurs de dolibarr : NOS CLIENTS, ceux qui nous permettent de gagner notre vie grâce à dolibarr !!! Si nous ne prenons pas un minimum d’attention à leurs revendications, nous retourneront à nos développements solitaires…

-          Au passage, cela ne fait pas quelques mois mais quelques années que je m’implique au niveau du projet dolibarr (cf mes contrib sur github) :  je ne suis pas Dark Vador mais, je l’espère, la princesse Léa ;-)

 

 

Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke

 

De : Dolibarr-dev [mailto:dolibarr-dev-bounces+charles.fr=[hidden email]] De la part de Sasa Ostrouska
Envoyé : mercredi 16 novembre 2016 11:32
À : Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and coding <[hidden email]>
Objet : Re: [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2

 

 

 

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 12:16 AM, Yannick Warnier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Charles,

I would try to avoid suggesting that you should answer this, so just so you know I'm just explaining, I'm not trying to launch you on another Star Destroyer campaign to destroy the current structure of the Dolibarr project.

You seem to be new to the way Open Source works. If you do not agree with the way things are handled and you think you can do better, you are completely free to fork the project. That's just in case you didn't know.

Open Source development just works in a different way because, as opposed to closed-source software developed inside a single company, there is no way to have all contributors timelines match, so the status of one version is never "completely finished" for all modules. It might be upsetting to you, but it's the way it works. This is the case for huge projects, not only Dolibarr.

Regarding Darth Vador, as the leaders of the Ubuntu project once put it, Open Source is *not* a democracy, it's a meritocracy based on contributions and helpfulness to others.

Democracy may work for governments and the political sphere, but in software communities, what counts is that you can ensure the project continues to work in the long run, and that is done by enforcing a very precise balance between too little rules and too many rules. If you set too many rules, chances are new people will not get involved into the project. If you set too little rules, people will do whatever they like and you'll end up with hundreds of forks and bloated forums.

Laurent has been driving the Dolibarr project for years now. With the help of many, yes, but nevertheless, Dolibarr would probably have disappeared without him providing the necessary stability to the software contributions, forum, etc.
As such, and as far as I am aware, Laurent is the biggest BDFL of Dolibarr. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life

Pretending to come after a few months of activity on the project and wanting to change everything is not going to work because that happened before and those same people who came and shouted for changes went away and the project continued without them.

I myself worked on Dolibarr in 2004 or so and I'm still around reading your posts (and still using Dolibarr as well), see?
Although the way the project is handled or some technical stuff might not please me, I personally don't see think following the changes you suggest will bring anything substantially different. As Laurent said, you can already choose the rythm of your upgrades yourself.

If what you want is to reduce your amount of work to integrate modules, please consider that this is likely to increase the amount of work of others. Of course, you could go and try to demonstrate that it won't, but the time you will take to demonstrate that will render the time gained by applying the suggested changes useless.

Seeing how this discussion drags on and there's little written support for Laurent, I thought I'd voice the thoughts of other people reading this and not wanting to take part because we have better things to do with our lives.

Thanks Laurent for your patience, as always. Most appreciated.

--
Cheers,

Yannick Warnier
BDSL and association's elected president
Chamilo project

 

I could not resist, very well written and explained. This is also my opinion, there was so many times the same problem with the same person, but the reality is, that as Yannick said, fork it if you are not satisfied and do it your own baby.

Rgds

Saxa
 




Le 08/11/16 à 15:50, Charles Benke a écrit :

In the star wars saga, the emperor was the one to make decisions, the
Jedi had a council governing collegially…



May the force be with you…



Bien cordialement,

Charlie Benke



*De :*Dolibarr-dev
[mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] *De la part
de* Laurent Destailleur (aka Eldy)
*Envoyé :* mardi 8 novembre 2016 21:07
*À :* Posts about Dolibarr ERP & CRM development and coding
<[hidden email]>
*Objet :* Re: [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2



The status of new module you mention is the status when the freeze start.

It is only at the end of the beta we can know if they are moved with
stable status.



Also a major version is not necessarly a version with a new module. You
probably decide this yourself but it is not.





So please again, stop trying to deny Dolibarr project by providing false
information on this mailing list and trying to cunfusing other readers.



Hi community, it seems we have a new Dark Vador in Dolibarr galaxy !











2016-11-08 13:32 GMT+01:00 Charles Benke <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>>:

    As reading on module

    Accountancy : experimental

    Multicurrency : develop



    So call IT as you want IS NOT  A MAJOR VERSION



    You speak that “Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour
    with external modules, “ witch external modules have you tested? All
    present in the dolistore?



    I would have preferred that we work more on the stability of
    previous major versions to continue this headlong counterproductive.

    I hope them we can discuss how the project is managed, it is time
    after 10 years actually change ...







    Bien cordialement,

    Charlie Benke



    *De :*Dolibarr-dev [mailto:[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>=[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>] *De la part de* Laurent Destailleur
    (aka Eldy)
    *Envoyé :* mardi 8 novembre 2016 00:11
    *À :* ML Dolibarr dev <[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>>
    *Objet :* [Dolibarr-dev] Dolibarr 5.0 freeze and new version 4.0.2





    Hi Dolibarr developers.





    Time to start the beta of the next major version has come. The
    release candidate version should be ready for January, so as usual,
    we must start the beta period few month ago, so now.

    To follow modern pratice about namin convention, next major version
    followin the 4.0 will be called 5.0 and not 4.1. I still don't know
    why we spent so many times (10 years) to increase the second level
    of number used commonly to describe a minor chane when it was major
    release, but well, late is better than never.



    So, starting from this week-end, the beta period for 5.0 will be
    launched. No new features will be added from PR.



    As usual, "started development" are allowed to be continued to be
    finished for final release. Work on not stable modules are also
    still opened because such modules won't be visible by users.  Among
    works already started and that are qualified to continue to push PR
    that are not bu fixed, we may find:

    - work on advanced accountancy (double party) module,

    - multicurrency module

    - work to simplify code to support oauth

    - website module

    - management of a VAT code to be able to distinguish different VAT
    with same rate

    - theme enhancement to be more responsive designed

    - uniformization of the look and feel and usae of the dol_banner for
    all tabs.

    - translation changes

    - changes required to allow package generations



    After the freeze, new features will be suspended until the branch
    for 5.0 is created. Then merging PR for new features will be
    possible again into develop branch.

    Also, architecture, reenginering, or best practice code enhancements
    will be discarded during this period. Instead any help is welcome to
    fix all opened bug: See https://github.com/Dolibarr/dolibarr/issues

    More information on what a "freeze"
    mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap



    Version 5.0 has a very good compatibility behaviour with external
    modules, so you can already check your external modules are still
    working with this version.



    A Changelog (not yet detailed with coming new features) is available
    in the current development branch that will be used to start the
    freeze to give information on what was changed and may need
    attention of external developers or upgraders.





    Also, note that a maintenance version, version 4.0.2 was released
    few days ago to provide recent fixes available for branch 4.0.



    More information on what a "maintenance version"
    mean: https://wiki.dolibarr.org/index.php/Category:RoadMap





    Laurent Destailleur, aka Eldy





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