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Enigma on iPhone

kurt hofmann
Hello

Surely you have made your thoughts about a version for the iPhone.

I do beleive that this would be a wonderful game on the iPhone.

That's why I was quite dissapointen to not even finding a note aout  
iPhone on your web site...

What are your thought about Enigma for iPhone?

Thanks

Kurt


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Ingo Klöcker-3
On Monday 23 March 2009, kurt hofmann wrote:

> Hello
>
> Surely you have made your thoughts about a version for the iPhone.
>
> I do beleive that this would be a wonderful game on the iPhone.
>
> That's why I was quite dissapointen to not even finding a note aout
> iPhone on your web site...
>
> What are your thought about Enigma for iPhone?
My (completely non-authoritative) thoughts about this are reflected by
the following blog:

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/5-reasons-to-avoid-iphone-3g


Regards,
Ingo

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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Sparr
In reply to this post by kurt hofmann
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 4:39 AM, kurt hofmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What are your thought about Enigma for iPhone?

Enigma compiles for ARM just fine.  The low res screen is a problem,
and you would have to write code for the tilt input (see discussion on
this topic from last(?) year, regarding a gyro attached to a gp2x or
nokia tablet).  The biggest problem is that developing for the iphone
requires a lack or setting aside of certain principles that are quite
prevalent here.


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Andreas Lochmann
In reply to this post by Ingo Klöcker-3

Hi,

Ingo Klöcker schrieb:

>> Surely you have made your thoughts about a version for the iPhone.
>>
>> I do beleive that this would be a wonderful game on the iPhone.
>>
>> That's why I was quite dissapointen to not even finding a note aout
>> iPhone on your web site...
>>
>> What are your thought about Enigma for iPhone?
>
> My (completely non-authoritative) thoughts about this are reflected by
> the following blog:
>
> http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/5-reasons-to-avoid-iphone-3g

Particularly the first point:

   "iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to
    Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on
    everyone's phones."

Nothing more to add. Except: There are versions of Enigma 0.92 for
the GP2X available here
   http://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,25,1729
and the similar game "Mulg" for Palms here:
   http://www.harbaum.org/till/palm/mulg/

Best,
Andreas


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Erich Schubert
I'm looking forward to the Android devices.
The HTC G1 doesn't really do it for me though, so maybe some of the
upcoming phones will be more interesting for me.
The only drawback is that porting to Android means a complete rewrite,
since it's all Java-like based, no way to get all the C++ code to run
on it so far.

Anyway, I'm avoiding Apple because of the grip they keep on their
software (the aforementioned "5 reasons" are pretty much no-gos for
me).
And I'm really sad that the multi-touch support in the Android phones
such as the G1 is disabled to avoid patent issue with Apple. I hope
they find a way to challenge or circumvent the patent.

Maybe the Samsung Android phone will do it for me. We'll see.

best regards,
Erich Schubert


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

kurt hofmann
In reply to this post by Andreas Lochmann
Hello Andreas,

What you are writing here is complete rubish.
There are thousands of free apps in the apple app store.
And not one of them payed a cent to publish it.

Secondly anyone publishing an app on the app store remains authority of the software.

You should not write things that are simply not true.
Please try to base your arguments on facts.

I can't beleive you are basin your arguments on a stupid page that publishes nonsense as can be proved.

Please tak a look at this page:
http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/distribute.html

And read aloud:

«No charge for free apps»

Just thought I'd let you know.

kurt


On 23.03.2009, at 21:15, Andreas Lochmann wrote:

"iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to
Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on
everyone's phones."


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Erich Schubert
Hi,
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10127333-37.html
'CNET's own David Carnoy has a new detective thriller out called Knife
Music, but you won't find it on the App Store.'

http://www.osnews.com/story/20455/Apple_Not_Accepting_Opera_Mini_on_iPhone
No Opera in the iPhone AppStore.

http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/iphone/apples_arrogant_app_store_developer_policies.html
'Since Podcaster assists in the distribution of podcasts, it
duplicates the functionality of the Podcast section of iTunes.'

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/03/iphone-app-tweetie-rejected-for-user-generated-content.ars
'Apple rejected Tweetie 1.3, an update to atebits' popular Twitter
client for the iPhone'

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,496544,00.html
'Apple rejects South Park iPhone Application' (by South Park Studios)

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/07/apple-rejects-obama-trampoline-iphone-app-leaves-us-puzzled/
'The application was a harmless game that let you select a known U.S.
politician (both republicans and democrats) and have him/her jump a
virtual trampoline.'

http://angelo.dinardi.name/2008/09/20/mailwrangler-and-the-apple-app-store/
'Your application duplicates the functionality of the built-in iPhone
application Mail without providing sufficient differentiation or added
functionality, which will lead to user confusion'

... and so on.
I can understand very well that developers are backing off from
developing for the iPhone, just to end up being denied publishing by
Apple.

best regards,
Erich Schubert


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Ingo Klöcker-3
In reply to this post by kurt hofmann
Hi Kurt,

on Monday 23 March 2009, kurt hofmann wrote:

> Hello Andreas,
>
> What you are writing here is complete rubish.
> There are thousands of free apps in the apple app store.
> And not one of them payed a cent to publish it.
>
> Secondly anyone publishing an app on the app store remains authority
> of the software.
>
> You should not write things that are simply not true.
> Please try to base your arguments on facts.
>
> I can't beleive you are basin your arguments on a stupid page that
> publishes nonsense as can be proved.
>
> Please tak a look at this page:
> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/distribute.html
>
> And read aloud:
>
> «No charge for free apps»
>
> Just thought I'd let you know.
If you would have clicked on the "Enroll Now" button, then you would
have seen that in order to publish apps in the App Store you have to
enroll in the Standard Program which costs $99 (or in the Enterprise
Program which costs $299). That's the "Apple tax" the below text speaks
about.


Regards,
Ingo


> On 23.03.2009, at 21:15, Andreas Lochmann wrote:
> > "iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax
> > to Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be
> > on everyone's phones."

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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Andreas Lochmann
In reply to this post by kurt hofmann

Hi Kurt,

kurt hofmann schrieb:

> What you are writing here is complete rubish.
> There are thousands of free apps in the apple app store.
> And not one of them payed a cent to publish it.
>
> Secondly anyone publishing an app on the app store remains authority of
> the software.
>
> You should not write things that are simply not true.
> Please try to base your arguments on facts.
>
> I can't beleive you are basin your arguments on a stupid page that
> publishes nonsense as can be proved.

Well, first of all, there's no cause to become insulting.
Even in a flame war.
(Though it might make things more boring.)

> Please tak a look at this page:
> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/distribute.html
>
> And read aloud:
>
> «No charge for free apps»

I'm indeed confused by Ingo's findings. Seems somehow
inconclusive to me.

However, I was able to find it somewhere else on macworld,
which brings us back to facts:

   http://www.macworld.com/article/132376/2008/03/liveupdate.html

Here we find an interview with Mr Jobs, about a year ago:

   "The App Store is going to be the exclusive way to distribute
   iPhone applications," Jobs says. "We think we've got a great
   business deal for developers." Developer picks the price.
   Developer gets 70% of the revenues right off the top. We
   keep 30%. No credit card fees for developers. No hosting fees.
   No marketing fees. "And it's paid monthly," Jobs says. "This
   is the best deal going to distribute applications in the
   mobile space."

   And there is no charge for free apps.

Aha, we get closer. So, yes, the blog entry on FSF seems to
be wrong, when it says "developers must pay a tax to Apple".
Maybe it's outdated, but at least now it seems wrong.
But this is not the point when it comes to "free software".
And here we have to distinguish (once again) between
"free apps" like in "free beer", and "free apps" like in
"free speech". When we at Enigma, or the people at FSF speak
of "free apps", we mean the latter.

When Mr Jobs says

   "The App Store is going to be the exclusive way to distribute
   iPhone applications"

this means: He wants to control the software. From a legal
point of view, we'd give up our rights to distribute the code
through other means than App Store -- and we end up with unfree
code. "Unfree", because it is bound by a single instance, by
Apple, who then is in exclusive control of the software,
regardless of what we developers wanted.
There might not be a high tax -- but a high price.

I hope you understand our considerations. It's not that easy to
grasp the concept of freedom of software, but nevertheless it's
a very important concept in our Digital Rights Modern Times.

Andreas

P.S.: Thanks Ingo and Erich for further answers, but this
mail was at me directly, I got it three times in different
revisions! ;-)


> On 23.03.2009, at 21:15, Andreas Lochmann wrote:
>
>> "iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to
>> Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on
>> everyone's phones."
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Enigma-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/enigma-devel



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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Ronald Lamprecht
Hi,

Andreas Lochmann wrote:

> When Mr Jobs says
>
>   "The App Store is going to be the exclusive way to distribute
>   iPhone applications"
>
> this means: He wants to control the software. From a legal
> point of view, we'd give up our rights to distribute the code
> through other means than App Store -- and we end up with unfree
> code. "Unfree", because it is bound by a single instance, by
> Apple, who then is in exclusive control of the software,
> regardless of what we developers wanted.
> There might not be a high tax -- but a high price.

I have heard these arguments quite a few times, but I can not agree or
at least I can not see an essential difference to many other situations.

When I rent some webspace on a commercial administrated web server I do
pay money and the operator determines what software packages I may use
and he may request extra money if I ask him to install some software I
like to use. If I do not like his offer, I will choose another provider.
But I should not blame one provider for not offering everything for free.

I don't think that we give up our rights to distribute the code. We
still can, will and must offer our sources. Look at a magazine
distributing Enigma on a DVD. They get money for the distribution and we
can not force them to add Enigma to their next DVD.

BTW in many countries you can even not distribute Enigma on a DVD to a
friend of yours without paying royality fees to some central
institution, that will never pay a cent to the open source community.

Thus for me it is solely a decision of the customer to buy an iPhone or
another brand.

Concerning Enigma I do intend to check the possibility of an iPhone port
directly after the 1.10 release. There have been other requests and if
the iPhone users are willing to support the project by distribution fees
    all other users would profit, too.

Greets,

Ronald


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Sparr
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Ronald Lamprecht
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't think that we give up our rights to distribute the code. We still
> can, will and must offer our sources.

At one point distributing source code to an iPhone app (even your own)
was punishable by revocation of your iPhone developer license.  I
understand that is no longer the case, but this helps illustrate the
level of control they want and can [try to] claim.

There are many things that Apple does not allow iPhone apps to do,
often for business reasons (no turn by turn navigation apps were
allowed until an Apple partner released theirs).  This level of
control is unacceptable, and I refuse to develop for a platform that
embraces it.

PS: Is reply to all expected on this list?  I see it being used, but
it is very odd to me to not just reply to the list.


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

kurt hofmann
In reply to this post by Andreas Lochmann
Hello Andreas

Sorry, I did not mean to insult you.

But let's get back to what I originally wanted to say:

1. Enigma is a great game
2. The iPhone is a cool device with millions of users

I am convinced that these two would fit together magically.

What you are making out of this discussion is – from the point of view  
of in iPhone user – just ridiculous.

All I want is a cool game on a cool device.
As are probably quite a few of the millions of iPhone users.

I am not at all interested in political discussions.


kurt

On 24.03.2009, at 00:20, Andreas Lochmann wrote:

>
> Hi Kurt,
>
> kurt hofmann schrieb:
>> What you are writing here is complete rubish.
>> There are thousands of free apps in the apple app store.
>> And not one of them payed a cent to publish it.
>> Secondly anyone publishing an app on the app store remains  
>> authority of the software.
>> You should not write things that are simply not true.
>> Please try to base your arguments on facts.
>> I can't beleive you are basin your arguments on a stupid page that  
>> publishes nonsense as can be proved.
>
> Well, first of all, there's no cause to become insulting.
> Even in a flame war.
> (Though it might make things more boring.)
>
>> Please tak a look at this page:
>> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/distribute.html
>> And read aloud:
>> «No charge for free apps»
>
> I'm indeed confused by Ingo's findings. Seems somehow
> inconclusive to me.
>
> However, I was able to find it somewhere else on macworld,
> which brings us back to facts:
>
>  http://www.macworld.com/article/132376/2008/03/liveupdate.html
>
> Here we find an interview with Mr Jobs, about a year ago:
>
>  "The App Store is going to be the exclusive way to distribute
>  iPhone applications," Jobs says. "We think we've got a great
>  business deal for developers." Developer picks the price.
>  Developer gets 70% of the revenues right off the top. We
>  keep 30%. No credit card fees for developers. No hosting fees.
>  No marketing fees. "And it's paid monthly," Jobs says. "This
>  is the best deal going to distribute applications in the
>  mobile space."
>
>  And there is no charge for free apps.
>
> Aha, we get closer. So, yes, the blog entry on FSF seems to
> be wrong, when it says "developers must pay a tax to Apple".
> Maybe it's outdated, but at least now it seems wrong.
> But this is not the point when it comes to "free software".
> And here we have to distinguish (once again) between
> "free apps" like in "free beer", and "free apps" like in
> "free speech". When we at Enigma, or the people at FSF speak
> of "free apps", we mean the latter.
>
> When Mr Jobs says
>
>  "The App Store is going to be the exclusive way to distribute
>  iPhone applications"
>
> this means: He wants to control the software. From a legal
> point of view, we'd give up our rights to distribute the code
> through other means than App Store -- and we end up with unfree
> code. "Unfree", because it is bound by a single instance, by
> Apple, who then is in exclusive control of the software,
> regardless of what we developers wanted.
> There might not be a high tax -- but a high price.
>
> I hope you understand our considerations. It's not that easy to
> grasp the concept of freedom of software, but nevertheless it's
> a very important concept in our Digital Rights Modern Times.
>
> Andreas
>
> P.S.: Thanks Ingo and Erich for further answers, but this
> mail was at me directly, I got it three times in different
> revisions! ;-)
>
>
>> On 23.03.2009, at 21:15, Andreas Lochmann wrote:
>>> "iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax  
>>> to
>>> Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on
>>> everyone's phones."
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Enigma-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/enigma-devel



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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Alexandros Tasos
Hi all,

How about this idea? This way we can get Enigma easily ported.

http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/1938/

Greets,
Alexandros

2009/3/24 kurt hofmann <[hidden email]>
Hello Andreas

Sorry, I did not mean to insult you.

But let's get back to what I originally wanted to say:

1. Enigma is a great game
2. The iPhone is a cool device with millions of users

I am convinced that these two would fit together magically.

What you are making out of this discussion is – from the point of view of in iPhone user – just ridiculous.

All I want is a cool game on a cool device.
As are probably quite a few of the millions of iPhone users.

I am not at all interested in political discussions.


kurt


On 24.03.2009, at 00:20, Andreas Lochmann wrote:


Hi Kurt,

kurt hofmann schrieb:
What you are writing here is complete rubish.
There are thousands of free apps in the apple app store.
And not one of them payed a cent to publish it.
Secondly anyone publishing an app on the app store remains authority of the software.
You should not write things that are simply not true.
Please try to base your arguments on facts.
I can't beleive you are basin your arguments on a stupid page that publishes nonsense as can be proved.

Well, first of all, there's no cause to become insulting.
Even in a flame war.
(Though it might make things more boring.)

Please tak a look at this page:
http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/distribute.html
And read aloud:
«No charge for free apps»

I'm indeed confused by Ingo's findings. Seems somehow
inconclusive to me.

However, I was able to find it somewhere else on macworld,
which brings us back to facts:

 http://www.macworld.com/article/132376/2008/03/liveupdate.html

Here we find an interview with Mr Jobs, about a year ago:

 "The App Store is going to be the exclusive way to distribute
 iPhone applications," Jobs says. "We think we've got a great
 business deal for developers." Developer picks the price.
 Developer gets 70% of the revenues right off the top. We
 keep 30%. No credit card fees for developers. No hosting fees.
 No marketing fees. "And it's paid monthly," Jobs says. "This
 is the best deal going to distribute applications in the
 mobile space."

 And there is no charge for free apps.

Aha, we get closer. So, yes, the blog entry on FSF seems to
be wrong, when it says "developers must pay a tax to Apple".
Maybe it's outdated, but at least now it seems wrong.
But this is not the point when it comes to "free software".
And here we have to distinguish (once again) between
"free apps" like in "free beer", and "free apps" like in
"free speech". When we at Enigma, or the people at FSF speak
of "free apps", we mean the latter.

When Mr Jobs says

 "The App Store is going to be the exclusive way to distribute
 iPhone applications"

this means: He wants to control the software. From a legal
point of view, we'd give up our rights to distribute the code
through other means than App Store -- and we end up with unfree
code. "Unfree", because it is bound by a single instance, by
Apple, who then is in exclusive control of the software,
regardless of what we developers wanted.
There might not be a high tax -- but a high price.

I hope you understand our considerations. It's not that easy to
grasp the concept of freedom of software, but nevertheless it's
a very important concept in our Digital Rights Modern Times.

Andreas

P.S.: Thanks Ingo and Erich for further answers, but this
mail was at me directly, I got it three times in different
revisions! ;-)


On 23.03.2009, at 21:15, Andreas Lochmann wrote:
"iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to
Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on
everyone's phones."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Erich Schubert
Hi,
> How about this idea? This way we can get Enigma easily ported.
> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/1938/

Sure, right after they have finished "Vista Ubuntu" they'll start
working on "iPhone Ubuntu".

Note: An idea doesn't make a working solution.

best regards,
Erich Schubert


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Erich Schubert
In reply to this post by kurt hofmann
Hello Kurt,
> 1. Enigma is a great game
> 2. The iPhone is a cool device with millions of users
>
> I am convinced that these two would fit together magically.

There is just a lack in
3. Opensource developers with iPhones devices, iPhone development
experience and that accept Apples way of handling third party
applications on the iPhone.

Which unfortunately for OpenSource is the key ingredient: developers.

In contrast to commercial software development, which is usually
driven by users willing to pay for a product, opensource development
is driven by developers, their interest in their own application and
their interest in attracting collaboration to improve their own
application beyond their personal boundaries.
So the key thing you'd need is to get a couple of good developers with
iphones together to do such a port.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as if Apple is welcoming opensource
developers much ...

You are of course welcome to prove me wrong. But for example I do not
have an iPhone and I also do not intend to buy one.

best regards,
Erich Schubert


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Andreas Lochmann
Hi,

Erich Schubert schrieb:
> Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as if Apple is welcoming opensource
> developers much ...

We shouldn't condemn Apple as a whole.
As with all companies, Apple consists of lots of people, all
with different opinions, politics, and sympathies towards or
against opensource. The result of course is a seemingly
inconsistent behaviour of the whole, where OSS is appreciated
in some places, declined in others, ignored or accepted in
yet other parts of the company. It's just the complex around
App Store / iPhone we're speaking about at this point.

Best,
Andreas

P.S., @Sparr: Reply-to-all shouldn't make a difference at
all, except for Kurt (or, in general, the topic's starter),
who might not be on the mailing list.



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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Sparr
In reply to this post by kurt hofmann
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:36 AM, kurt hofmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What you are making out of this discussion is – from the point of view of in
> iPhone user – just ridiculous.
> All I want is a cool game on a cool device.
> As are probably quite a few of the millions of iPhone users.
> I am not at all interested in political discussions.

This pinpoints the difference between an iPhone user and the average
FOSS developer.  You don't care how much freedom you give up to Apple
as long as the things you want work.  And, if you are a typical iPhone
user, when Apple says you can't have something, you just accept that,
maybe with a little complaining.  But for most of us, the fact that
Apple exercises that level of control, to the ends of their profit and
their users' annoyance, makes developing for their platform a much
less desirable option.

Would you accept a well-paying job from a company that you knew was
evil?  Most iPhone users would.  Most FOSS developers wouldn't.


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Ingo Klöcker-3
In reply to this post by Ronald Lamprecht
On Tuesday 24 March 2009, Ronald Lamprecht wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Andreas Lochmann wrote:
> > When Mr Jobs says
> >
> >   "The App Store is going to be the exclusive way to distribute
> >   iPhone applications"
> >
> > this means: He wants to control the software. From a legal
> > point of view, we'd give up our rights to distribute the code
> > through other means than App Store -- and we end up with unfree
> > code. "Unfree", because it is bound by a single instance, by
> > Apple, who then is in exclusive control of the software,
> > regardless of what we developers wanted.
> > There might not be a high tax -- but a high price.
>
> I have heard these arguments quite a few times, but I can not agree
> or at least I can not see an essential difference to many other
> situations.
>
> When I rent some webspace on a commercial administrated web server I
> do pay money and the operator determines what software packages I may
> use and he may request extra money if I ask him to install some
> software I like to use. If I do not like his offer, I will choose
> another provider. But I should not blame one provider for not
> offering everything for free.
>
> I don't think that we give up our rights to distribute the code. We
> still can, will and must offer our sources. Look at a magazine
> distributing Enigma on a DVD. They get money for the distribution and
> we can not force them to add Enigma to their next DVD.
From http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html:

  Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy,
  distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it
  refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:

  - The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).

  - The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your
    needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for
    this.

  - The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor
    (freedom 2).

  - The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements
    (and modified versions in general) to the public, so that the whole
    community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a
    precondition for this.

Apple's control over what you install on your iPhone takes away all of
those freedoms to some extent. For example, I cannot install my own
modified version of Enigma. I have to install the version from App
Store. This goes against everything the GPL and Free Software stands
for.

In my opinion, you do the Free Software community a disservice if you
release Enigma on the iPhone.

Obviously, that's just my opinion as a Free Software-loving fan of
Enigma. In the end it's your choice. Because Enigma is Free Software.
Think about it!


Regards,
Ingo

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Re: Enigma on iPhone

Raoul-3
Hi,

> From http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html:
>
>   Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy,
>   distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely,
>   it refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:
>
>   - The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
>
>   - The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your
>     needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for
>     this.
>
>   - The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor
>     (freedom 2).
>
>   - The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements
>     (and modified versions in general) to the public, so that the
>     whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is
>     a precondition for this.
>
> Apple's control over what you install on your iPhone takes away all
> of those freedoms to some extent. For example, I cannot install my
> own modified version of Enigma. I have to install the version from
> App Store. This goes against everything the GPL and Free Software
> stands for.
>
> In my opinion, you do the Free Software community a disservice if you
> release Enigma on the iPhone.
>
> Obviously, that's just my opinion as a Free Software-loving fan of
> Enigma. In the end it's your choice. Because Enigma is Free Software.
> Think about it!

I share this opinion in all points. I think, it's very important to
insist on these four freedoms, especially nowadays!

The idea of a closed platform is the wrong way for hardware of any kind.
It's the same with all those binary file formats without useful (if any)
documentation.

Even if the facts in the FSF article may be outdated or wrong, the problem
still remains the same.


I want to add, that this is my very own view and not necessary
the one of the enigma devel team.


-- Raoul


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Re: Enigma on iPhone

kurt hofmann
In reply to this post by Sparr
Hello

This seems to be quite some wasps nest I have gotten into.

Regarding your answer:

I find it quite amusing that you title Apple as being 'evil'.

If Apple is 'evil' then show me a company that makes money that isn't  
'evil'!

You would rather develop fo Android?
So Google isn't 'evil'?
Really sure?

As much as I can follow your principles:
This 'evil' and 'not evil' theorie for me seems to be quite far off,  
unrealistic and even slightly extraterrestrial.

And there is after all a verson of Enigma for Microsoft Windows.
So if it can be done for Microsoft Windows it might as well be done  
for Apple's iPhone.

Don't make such a FOSS about it!
(sorry, I just couldn't resist)

Kurt

On 24.03.2009, at 17:26, Sparr wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:36 AM, kurt hofmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> What you are making out of this discussion is – from the point of  
>> view of in
>> iPhone user – just ridiculous.
>> All I want is a cool game on a cool device.
>> As are probably quite a few of the millions of iPhone users.
>> I am not at all interested in political discussions.
>
> This pinpoints the difference between an iPhone user and the average
> FOSS developer.  You don't care how much freedom you give up to Apple
> as long as the things you want work.  And, if you are a typical iPhone
> user, when Apple says you can't have something, you just accept that,
> maybe with a little complaining.  But for most of us, the fact that
> Apple exercises that level of control, to the ends of their profit and
> their users' annoyance, makes developing for their platform a much
> less desirable option.
>
> Would you accept a well-paying job from a company that you knew was
> evil?  Most iPhone users would.  Most FOSS developers wouldn't.



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