Hi from Ray Re: Logic level

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Hi from Ray Re: Logic level

rayrwick
Hi Erich and Alain,

Your conversation about a "logic" level got me interested in trying to make one.  The attached level is not quite what you were talking about but it seems to work after a fashion.  The real problem seems to be reading the clues as they race past the document viewing area but this is the only way I could thing of presenting the text.  I used the mentioned logic problem of the Kings and their nick names as a test.  I hope I got the right solution.  The level is for Enigma 1.10.

As always, any comments, suggestions and critiques would be welcome.

Enjoy,
           Ray


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Re : Hi from Ray Re: Logic level

Busser Alain
>The attached level is not quite what you were talking about

it is very near my initial idea...

> The real problem seems to be
> reading the clues as they race past the document viewing area

It may help if the people bear a name which is represented by items and the goal is to guess the color of their clothes. For example, there would be sentences like "Mr. Hammer is speaking with the man in blue" and "Mr. Sword hates the green". Then floors and items would help the player to remember what he is doing.


By the way I still think that it could be made a meditation level, you'd only have to set as "essential" the good it-hollows and not the other ones. I did not test this yet but I read it in the reference manual and it should work (I recall that there are not so many meditation levels)

An other thing: Your level don't work on my milestone 5 on XP (error message states that at line 206, on an fl_adhesionless, mousefactor cannot be attributed because of a mismatch in variable type).

If you intend to go on working on this level (and I'd like it) I suggest that you (and all of the devel list) think about funnier sentences like "Mr Jones's foot is under a red skirt", "The butcher did not it (make a baby to, Ms Jones)" etc.

Happy developping

Alain


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Re: Re : Hi from Ray Re: Logic level

Erich Schubert
Hello,
Yeah, I would try to use characters such as:
- the clown (umbrella)
- the knight (sword)
- the carpenter (hammer)
- the hacker (floppy disk)

attribute ideas:
- poor / rich (coins)
- cool (shades)
- maniac (dynamite)

colors. Can be described as "warm" and "cold" to provide partial hints.

As for the hints, you could setup a machine that produces scrolls with
the hints again and again.
So people can cycle through the hints.
Is there a "siren stone", that will produce a message when hit just
like a scroll?

> By the way I still think that it could be made a meditation level, you'd only have to set as "essential" the good it-hollows and not the other ones. I did not test this yet but I read it in the reference manual and it should work (I recall that there are not so many meditation levels)

It doesn't fit the mood of a meditation level though IMHO. Where the
challenge should be the synchronized control of multiple marbles, not
a puzzle that you might even want to solve "offline". Which is why it
IMHO is essential that we provide the user with some "scratch space"
on the screen. We don't want them to use pen & paper.

But I have an idea along these lines. The board contains a storage
room with all kinds of items that the user can use as markers. There
also is a shovel, and a stone to produce dynamite. In one of the
fields, the user is expected to use the dynamite to produce holes for
his medidation marbles, which he then can release from a cage and
direct into the holes to see if he's right.
I'm not sure if that is easy to implement though, so it only accepts
the correct solution.

It might be easier to just have the user answer simple questions such
as "who is the murderer" and have him drop an id item on the question
field (rules out the umbrella though).

best regards,
Erich Schubert


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Re: Hi from Ray Re: Logic level

Raoul-3
Hi *,

> As for the hints, you could setup a machine that produces scrolls with
> the hints again and again.
> So people can cycle through the hints.
> Is there a "siren stone", that will produce a message when hit just
> like a scroll?

For Enigma 1.10 we have a history of displayed documents. They are
accessible by pressing the down arrow key.


-- Raoul


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Logic level

Busser Alain
In reply to this post by Erich Schubert
 We don't want them to use pen & paper.

I did not begin to code (I want to read the ref first because it will be my first new API level)
 
Yet I begin to conceive in my head something which could avoid the use of pencil and paper and still be a meditation level: At the beginning all the cells of the table are provided with it-hollows (small) but the pearls would have a shovel to erase these it-hollows after each reading of a document (plus maybe a dynamite furnisher in case of error) and at the end of the game it remains only the hollows that express who is who in the table and the level is finish (only I will have to find how I am sure that the data are the good ones maybe with a hidden hollow which I erase only when the solution is found).

And if a meditation level is not fitted there can also be a version where blackball has to use it-pencils and an it-brush until he knows where to put some items (pins, coins etc.).

In any case I am considering stones as names (like Mr. Oxyd, Mr. Quake etc.) items as jobs (bomb for the soldier podometer for the engineer etc.) and color of socks or hats. Then I would have sentences like "Mr. Concrete is speaking with the carpenter" and "the soldier hates the color blue".

Anyway I will wait until next year to begin this level (!)

Happy 2010

Alain


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Logic level

Busser Alain
In reply to this post by rayrwick
> As always, any comments, suggestions and critiques would be welcome.
>

Hi, I finally managed to turn your file in a more personal version (here attached but I already posted it on magheut). As you can see, I didn't try to make it random or general; There are two main differences between your file and mine:
1: I preferred to use Enigma groups than to multiply tests (and I suspect that it can be further simplified).
2: The use of items and actors to show the names, the professions and what the characters wear (I just realized that in French, carry and wear are the same verb, so it must sound really strange to hear about a girl who wears a weight; let's just say she is a little excentric...) frees me from the descriptive documents: Now I have only the 9 clues which is easier to handle (and the down arrow allows the player to see them again).

You can see that although I tried to make it a meditation level, I just could not: When dents are erased at random, as soon as the "essential" dents are erased, the remaining ones become essential and the meditation level could be solved without reading the clues: This was surely not intended. So I gave up and came to this Enigma level.

As it is made, the level needs that the player uses each color of coins for one table only. This can be changed but I did not find necessary to allow the player to mix up the coins (or to use only one color) because now the player understands that 5 coins per table are to be used.

The same switch is used to get the pencils as long as the game is not won and the hammer at the end. I preferred not to say it to the player: It can be more fun if the player has actually won without noticing it (or more anger!)

I too would like comments and suggestions but better than the critics I would love to have other versions of this game (preferably posted on my thread at MagHeut)

Happy playing (or happy cheating if you're impatient)

Alain

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