NMH IMAP GPG

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NMH IMAP GPG

john doe-2
Hi,

As far as I understand it, NMH can not be used directly with IMAP,so I
would like to use FDM for this.
If it is possible, I would appriciate any pointers on how to do this?

An other need for my MUA is the ability to use email encryption/signing
with GPG.
For now, I'm not sure how/if I can use GPG with NMH?

Any feedback on the above is welcome.

--
John Doe

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Re: NMH IMAP GPG

Leonardo Taccari
john doe writes:
> Hi,
>

Hello John,

> As far as I understand it, NMH can not be used directly with IMAP,so I
> would like to use FDM for this.
> If it is possible, I would appriciate any pointers on how to do this?
>

I basically have the following in fdm.conf:

 | # Pipe to nmh's rcvstore using %[ml] as MH folder
 | action "rcvstore" pipe "/usr/pkg/libexec/nmh/rcvstore +%[ml]"
 |
 | # Populate headers tags needed by rules
 | match "^cc:(.*)" in headers action tag "cc" value "%1" continue
 | match "^from:(.*)" in headers action tag "from" value "%1" continue
 | match "^list-id:(.*)" in headers action tag "list-id" value "%1" continue
 | match "^to:(.*)" in headers action tag "to" value "%1" continue
 |
 | [...]
 |
 | # Public MLs
 | #
 | # All of them have the following form:
 | #
 | #  match string "%[list-id]" to "XXXML" or string "%[to]" to "XXXML" or string "%[cc]" to "XXXML" actions { tag "ml" value "XXXTAGML" action "rcvstore" }
 | #
 | # where XXXML can be the ML address or List-Id: field
 | # and XXXTAGML is the MH # folder that will be used
 |

So, for examples these are the two rules to match nmh-announce and nmh-workers
mailing lists and respective store the in the nmh-announce and
nmh-workers folders:

 | match string "%[list-id]" to "nmh-announce[@.]nongnu.org" or string "%[to]" to "nmh-announce[@.]nongnu.org" or string "%[cc]" to "nmh-announce[@.]nongnu.org" actions { tag "ml" value "nmh-announce" action "rcvstore" }
 | match string "%[list-id]" to "nmh-workers[@.]nongnu.org" or string "%[to]" to "nmh-workers[@.]nongnu.org" or string "%[cc]" to "nmh-workers[@.]nongnu.org" actions { tag "ml" value "nmh-workers" action "rcvstore" }

...and if the email doesn't match any rule I store them in an INBOX MH
folder:

 | # ...no luck, go to the INBOX!
 | match all actions { tag "ml" value "INBOX" action "rcvstore" }

> An other need for my MUA is the ability to use email encryption/signing
> with GPG.
> For now, I'm not sure how/if I can use GPG with NMH?
>
> Any feedback on the above is welcome.
>

You can use Neil Rickert's mhpgp that could be found here:

 http://faculty.cs.niu.edu/~rickert/mh/

I just set `rsakey' as an environment variable and then after finished
to compose an email via comp(1) or repl(1), in what(1) prompt you can
just type `e mhsign -m' to sign the email.

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Re: NMH IMAP GPG

Ralph Corderoy
In reply to this post by john doe-2
Hi John,

> As far as I understand it, NMH can not be used directly with IMAP,so I
> would like to use FDM for this.

For those of us that didn't know, or have forgotten, FDM is a
fetchmail(1)-alike.  https://github.com/nicm/fdm#readme

> John Doe

You may be interested to know that the mailing list got a few, not many,
bounces from subscribers because they thought your email was spam;
I suspect it was the moniker that triggered them, though things like the
all-CAPS subject raised the score here.

--
Cheers, Ralph.

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Re: nmh imap gpg

john doe-2
Hello all, and thank you for your answers.


On 1/8/2020 3:07 PM, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>> As far as I understand it, NMH can not be used directly with IMAP,so I
>> would like to use FDM for this.
>
> For those of us that didn't know, or have forgotten, FDM is a
> fetchmail(1)-alike.  https://github.com/nicm/fdm#readme
>

Is there any alternative to fdm for imap that works well with NMH?

>> John Doe
>

Are you refering to the signature?

> You may be interested to know that the mailing list got a few, not many,
> bounces from subscribers because they thought your email was spam;
> I suspect it was the moniker that triggered them, though things like the
> all-CAPS subject raised the score here.
>

At the time I created this e-mail address, I thought that using "john
doe" was a good idea, now that I'm using this e-mail more and more, it
became apparent that I neglected spam filtering! :)

Sorry about that.

P.S.

Duly noted for not capitalizing subject anymore.

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Re: nmh imap gpg

Paul Fox-3
john wrote:
 > P.S.
 >
 > Duly noted for not capitalizing subject anymore.
 >

It's the spam filters that are broken -- not your email.


=----------------------
paul fox, [hidden email] (arlington, ma, where it's 32.2 degrees)


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Re: nmh imap gpg

Steffen Nurpmeso
In reply to this post by john doe-2
john doe wrote in <[hidden email]>:
 |Hello all, and thank you for your answers.
 |
 |On 1/8/2020 3:07 PM, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
 |> Hi John,
 |>
 |>> As far as I understand it, NMH can not be used directly with IMAP,so I
 |>> would like to use FDM for this.
 |>
 |> For those of us that didn't know, or have forgotten, FDM is a
 |> fetchmail(1)-alike.  https://github.com/nicm/fdm#readme
 |
 |Is there any alternative to fdm for imap that works well with NMH?

What do you mean by that?  My MUA inherited IMAP support from its
predecessor Heirloom mailx (now S-nail for some more time), it is
primitive but usable.  Error handling and recovery of that entire
"module" is primitive / non-existing, i.e., for superior
scriptable access.  But beside that it is a basic yet functional
IMAP implementation.

(It actually has even some neat ideas, like a local IMAP cache.
But these will vanish in the future.)

 |>> John Doe
 |>
 |
 |Are you refering to the signature?
 |
 |> You may be interested to know that the mailing list got a few, not many,
 |> bounces from subscribers because they thought your email was spam;
 |> I suspect it was the moniker that triggered them, though things like the
 |> all-CAPS subject raised the score here.
 |>
 |
 |At the time I created this e-mail address, I thought that using "john
 |doe" was a good idea, now that I'm using this e-mail more and more, it
 |became apparent that I neglected spam filtering! :)
 |
 |Sorry about that.
 |
 |P.S.
 |
 |Duly noted for not capitalizing subject anymore.
 |
 --End of <[hidden email]>

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

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Re: nmh imap gpg

john doe-2
On 1/8/2020 4:19 PM, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:

> john doe wrote in <[hidden email]>:
>  |Hello all, and thank you for your answers.
>  |
>  |On 1/8/2020 3:07 PM, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
>  |> Hi John,
>  |>
>  |>> As far as I understand it, NMH can not be used directly with IMAP,so I
>  |>> would like to use FDM for this.
>  |>
>  |> For those of us that didn't know, or have forgotten, FDM is a
>  |> fetchmail(1)-alike.  https://github.com/nicm/fdm#readme
>  |
>  |Is there any alternative to fdm for imap that works well with NMH?
>
> What do you mean by that?

I'm planning to use nmh, which does not support the imap protocol.

One way to use imap with nmh is to use fdm but other then that, I was
wondering what else could be used with nmh to access my e-mail using imap?

Thanks for s-nail, 'mailx' could do what I want imap/smtp/gpg.

--
John Doe

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Re: nmh imap gpg

Steffen Nurpmeso
john doe wrote in <[hidden email]>:
 |On 1/8/2020 4:19 PM, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:
 |> john doe wrote in <[hidden email]>:
 |>|Hello all, and thank you for your answers.
 |>|
 |>|On 1/8/2020 3:07 PM, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
 |>|>> As far as I understand it, NMH can not be used directly with IMAP,so I
 |>|>> would like to use FDM for this.
 |>|>
 |>|> For those of us that didn't know, or have forgotten, FDM is a
 |>|> fetchmail(1)-alike.  https://github.com/nicm/fdm#readme
 |>|
 |>|Is there any alternative to fdm for imap that works well with NMH?
 |>
 |> What do you mean by that?
 |
 |I'm planning to use nmh, which does not support the imap protocol.
 |
 |One way to use imap with nmh is to use fdm but other then that, I was
 |wondering what else could be used with nmh to access my e-mail using imap?

That much i had understood.  The question that crossed my mind was
just what features etc. you need.  For example, we cannot simply
pass a mail to some consumer, and we do also not support the nmh
storage format, so either of an intermediate MBOX or Maildir
storage is required.  But of course you can do things like

  s-nail -A my_account -Y 'file IMAP-ACCOUNT' \
    -Y 'copy :n %' -Y quit || exit 1

to get new mail copied over to your local $MAIL, and the ||exit
clause will become increasingly reliable.  Anything better has to
wait until after v15, which hopefully comes, somewhen.

 |Thanks for s-nail, 'mailx' could do what I want imap/smtp/gpg.

Tja, thanks for the thanks, that mailx renaming will take some
time.  And gpg will not happen before, i hope this summer.  And of
course that has nothing to do with nmh integration then, you would
need to compose and view messages from within the (then still
pretty much restricted) MUA.

Maybe funnily, just this day i have seen the first time a message
generated by Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7 (on a FreeBSD list).  I would expect
the JMAP protocol to join mail and calendar and contacts under an
umbrella protocol series, and thus turn IMAP into a vintage thing,
maybe even fast.  (And even though a new IMAP revision is to be
expected this year, i think.)

 |John Doe
 --End of <[hidden email]>

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

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Re: nmh imap gpg

Ralph Corderoy
In reply to this post by john doe-2
Hi John,

> > For those of us that didn't know, or have forgotten, FDM is a
> > fetchmail(1)-alike.  https://github.com/nicm/fdm#readme
>
> Is there any alternative to fdm for imap that works well with NMH?

Well, nmh incorporates email with inc(1), typically from
/var/mail/$LOGNAME or similar, which is a single file in an mbox format.
You want something that will pull down emails over IMAP and deposit
them in that file and format.  fdm looks like it does that, though I
only know of it from your introduction, and fetchmail(1) definitely
does.  There are probably others.  I think fetchmail is the most
well known.

BTW, it's MH, but nmh because whoever prefix the n lower-cased it at the
same time.  :-)

> > > John Doe
>
> Are you refering to the signature?

I can't tell from the automatic complaints/spam ratings that I see.

> At the time I created this e-mail address, I thought that using "john
> doe" was a good idea, now that I'm using this e-mail more and more, it
> became apparent that I neglected spam filtering! :)

You could become Jo H. N. Doe.  :-)

--
Cheers, Ralph.

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Re: nmh imap gpg

john doe-2
In reply to this post by Steffen Nurpmeso
On 1/10/2020 7:32 PM, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:

> john doe wrote in <[hidden email]>:
>  |On 1/8/2020 4:19 PM, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote:
>  |> john doe wrote in <[hidden email]>:
>  |>|Hello all, and thank you for your answers.
>  |>|
>  |>|On 1/8/2020 3:07 PM, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
>  |>|>> As far as I understand it, NMH can not be used directly with IMAP,so I
>  |>|>> would like to use FDM for this.
>  |>|>
>  |>|> For those of us that didn't know, or have forgotten, FDM is a
>  |>|> fetchmail(1)-alike.  https://github.com/nicm/fdm#readme
>  |>|
>  |>|Is there any alternative to fdm for imap that works well with NMH?
>  |>
>  |> What do you mean by that?
>  |
>  |I'm planning to use nmh, which does not support the imap protocol.
>  |
>  |One way to use imap with nmh is to use fdm but other then that, I was
>  |wondering what else could be used with nmh to access my e-mail using imap?
>
> That much i had understood.  The question that crossed my mind was
> just what features etc. you need.  For example, we cannot simply
> pass a mail to some consumer, and we do also not support the nmh
> storage format, so either of an intermediate MBOX or Maildir
> storage is required.  But of course you can do things like
>
>   s-nail -A my_account -Y 'file IMAP-ACCOUNT' \
>     -Y 'copy :n %' -Y quit || exit 1
>
> to get new mail copied over to your local $MAIL, and the ||exit
> clause will become increasingly reliable.  Anything better has to
> wait until after v15, which hopefully comes, somewhen.
>

I'm lost here and would appriciate any help:

I'm currently using Thunderbird/enigmail, my reasons for moving from
TB/enigmail are as follow:
- Subkeys nob supported
- TB moving away from enigmail by implementing built-in support for GPG


I have tried mutt but interface like ncurses/slang is not something I  want.

It looks like mailx/mh could do what I want but I'm not sure how to go
about it.

What I want to do is using imap to access my e-mails, using smtp to send
my e-mails and use GPG to sign/encrypt my e-mails.

Other then knowing what I want/need, I'm clueless on how to go about it?


I don't have a domain name nor, at least for now, will someone else will
use that setup.


P.S.

For starter, sending/replying/receiving e-mails from mail.com is simply
what I would like to have!

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Re: nmh imap gpg

Ralph Corderoy
Hi John,

> What I want to do is using imap to access my e-mails,

Access and manipulate them, e.g. refile them into a folder, over IMAP
whilst leaving the emails on the server.  Or access them to pull them
down to the local machine where they're then stored, moved about, etc.

--
Cheers, Ralph.

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Re: nmh imap gpg

Ken Hornstein-2
In reply to this post by john doe-2
>What I want to do is using imap to access my e-mails, using smtp to send
>my e-mails and use GPG to sign/encrypt my e-mails.
>
>Other then knowing what I want/need, I'm clueless on how to go about it?

Others have pointed you to tools to using GPG with nmh; I haven't used them,
and I agree we need better support there.

>For starter, sending/replying/receiving e-mails from mail.com is simply
>what I would like to have!

Well, according to this web page:

https://www.lifewire.com/what-are-mail-com-smtp-settings-1170500

mail.com supports POP (which we DO support) if you want to use that instead
of IMAP.  As for using POP/SMTP ... I would suggest reading the man pages
for send(1) and inc(1) and that should point you in the right direction.
Feel free to ask more questions if those aren't clear.

--Ken

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Re: nmh imap gpg

john doe-2
In reply to this post by Ralph Corderoy
Hello Ralph and thank you for your support/help.

On 1/13/2020 12:07 PM, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>> What I want to do is using imap to access my e-mails,
>
> Access and manipulate them, e.g. refile them into a folder, over IMAP
> whilst leaving the emails on the server.  Or access them to pull them
> down to the local machine where they're then stored, moved about, etc.
>

Preferably interacting with the server directly is what I'm looking for
the moment.

Regarding imap/pop3, while mail.com supports pop3 other projects that
I'm working with only support imap.
So I'd rather test my setup with mail.com, in case I mest up, then go
with my other accounts.


It is understood that I should read the docs, which is, what I'm
currently doing! :)

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Re: nmh imap gpg

Ralph Corderoy
Hi John,

> Preferably interacting with the server directly is what I'm looking
> for the moment.

So that's what nmh doesn't do.  It isn't a command-line interface to
remote email folders over IMAP.  It's often asked for, and Ken's put a
lot of thought into it.  (I may be out of date.)

--
Cheers, Ralph.

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Re: nmh imap gpg

john doe-2
On 1/13/2020 4:45 PM, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi John,
>
>> Preferably interacting with the server directly is what I'm looking
>> for the moment.
>
> So that's what nmh doesn't do.  It isn't a command-line interface to
> remote email folders over IMAP.  It's often asked for, and Ken's put a
> lot of thought into it.  (I may be out of date.)
>

+1 for putting this on the top of the todo list and if I can, I would be
willing to test that out! :)


So for now, I need to use FDM/fetchmail to get a copy of the e-mails
from the server to a mailbox file on my computer in order to be able to
use nmh?


An other question if I may, I guess (1) won't help me here or can I use
it as an alternative to fetchmail/FDM?


Many thanks for bearing with me! :)

1)  https://guilhem.org/interimap/

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Re: nmh imap gpg

Ralph Corderoy
Hi John,

> > So that's what nmh doesn't do.  It isn't a command-line interface to
> > remote email folders over IMAP.  It's often asked for, and Ken's put
> > a lot of thought into it.  (I may be out of date.)
...
> So for now, I need to use FDM/fetchmail to get a copy of the e-mails
> from the server to a mailbox file on my computer in order to be able
> to use nmh?

I think so.

> An other question if I may, I guess (1) won't help me here or can I
> use it as an alternative to fetchmail/FDM?
> 1)  https://guilhem.org/interimap/

That's an interesting program for keeping two accounts synchronised.
It hasn't been mentioned here before.  Interesting mutt(1) can make use
of it.

But you're right; just as nmh won't talk IMAP for its folder operations
to a remote IMAP server, it won't talk to a local one either.  That web
page hints that it may be possible to use an MUA that doesn't talk IMAP
but it depends how much impact cache invalidation will have, assuming
the local IMAP server copes with it correctly.  Sounds too risky to me.

--
Cheers, Ralph.