Re: [Enigma-announce] Enigma-announce Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3

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Re: [Enigma-announce] Enigma-announce Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3

Raoul-3
Hi,


> Have you considered using an SVG format instead? They can be scaled
> without loss of quality.

Sure. There is probably even an old thread on the devel ML about this.
However, just scaling the graphics is not enough. If we want to provide
good looking image tiles ranging from gfx16 up to gfx64 or even gfx80 then
there should be a different level of details depending on the resolution.

Additionally, vector graphics will get difficult for some of the effects
where many different gradients and spots enter.

But I encourage everyone to try, we can always convert an svg into
the png files ...


-- Raoul

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Re: 64x64 Tilesets

Luke Smith-3
Hi, I have been a fan of Enigma for years. I am now a graphic designer. If I were to make a whole new tileset, how hard would it be to add a 'theme' option in the settings? I could work on making larger versions of what already exsists, But starting from scratch with SVG and later adding pixel effects after conversion, might be a nice possibility. If I could change tilesets on the fly, I would LOVE to design a new tileset.

Anyway, I'm willing to do any work that is required.

Oh, and also: would 128 and 256 be nice? If I'm doing the work, I may as well do it once. My idea: Convert the whole tileset to vector (rather easy for me) for the base images, and add pixel effects afterwards.

Would that work?

~Evan

From: Raoul <[hidden email]>
To: Sigma <[hidden email]>; Enigma-devel mailing list <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Enigma-devel] [Enigma-announce] Enigma-announce Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3

Hi,


> Have you considered using an SVG format instead? They can be scaled
> without loss of quality.

Sure. There is probably even an old thread on the devel ML about this.
However, just scaling the graphics is not enough. If we want to provide
good looking image tiles ranging from gfx16 up to gfx64 or even gfx80 then
there should be a different level of details depending on the resolution.

Additionally, vector graphics will get difficult for some of the effects
where many different gradients and spots enter.

But I encourage everyone to try, we can always convert an svg into
the png files ...


-- Raoul

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Enigma-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/enigma-devel



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Re: [Enigma-announce] Enigma-announce Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3

Erich Schubert
In reply to this post by Raoul-3
Hi all,
While of course SVG would be a good choice for a scalable format -- and there may be need to support more resolutions in the future, think of Macbook Retina and Chromebook Pixel -- it is not that good for *low* resolutions.
It's not as if you can scale *down* a SVG to, say, 16x16 pixels and it is still guaranteed to look good.
It's guaranteed to look "the same" as the larger image, just scaled down.

Even if you enable hinting, the images will still not be as good as hand optimized for the small resolution.
You might need to increase the line width, but in a number of cases you will need to rethink the whole design, actually.
Just have a look at scalable icon sets, such as Tango icons.

Have a look for example at this overview shot:
http://tango.freedesktop.org/mediawiki/images/2/20/Tango-feet.png

The photo apparatus (upper set: second row, first image. lower set: second row, sixth image), the playing cards, the microphone, the movie player.
These are good examples of how it may be necessary to simplify icons beyond just scaling them down.

However, this may be a good workflow:
generate the textures first using a SVG at a rather high resolution - maybe at 64x64 with a 32x32 grid.
Then scale them down and _optimize_ them for the lower resolutions, too.
It probably is easier to simplify an icon until it is easily recognizable than starting with a low resolution and trying to scale it up.

Regards,
Erich

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Re: 64x64 Tilesets

Raoul-3
In reply to this post by Luke Smith-3
Hi Evan,


> Hi, I have been a fan of Enigma for years. I am now a graphic
> designer. If I were to make a whole new tileset, how hard would it be
> to add a 'theme' option in the settings?

Well, themes are not supported at all. And I'm not sure how
good that idea would be. Level Design often depends not only
on the features of a particular object but also on its visual
appearance. F.e. choose a floor matching the main stones, make
a level in dark, light or whatever colors etc ...

It *is* easy to test new tiles on a custom installation.

And personally, I think we should make one complete set of tiles
for alle supported resolutions before considering themes at all.
This is still enough work!

> I could work on making larger versions of what already exsists,

Great, that would be *very* welcome.

> But starting from scratch with SVG and later adding pixel effects after
> conversion, might be a nice possibility.

If you actually start working, I can tell you some details on the workflow
and conventions I used while doing some of the improved tiles.

> If I could change tilesets on the fly, I would LOVE
> to design a new tileset.
>
> Anyway, I'm willing to do any work that is required.

> Oh, and also: would 128 and 256 be nice? If I'm doing the work, I may
> as well do it once.

Right, but the first stop would be gfx80. For even larger tiles we need
to see which size they should have to be usable for the most common
screen resolutions. Additionally we will need some smaller new C++ code
(not a big deal). The major issue I see with huge screens is that
a level size of 20 x 13 tiles does make little sense and the single things
become dozens of cm^2. It would be better to increase the level resolution
and allow for 40 x 26 or whatever. We would have to consider this
very carefully if at all because it will spoil some levels.

> My idea: Convert the whole tileset to vector (rather easy for me)
> for the base images, and add pixel effects afterwards.

Probably yes.


-- Raoul

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Re: Enigma-announce Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3

Raoul-3
In reply to this post by Erich Schubert
Hi,


Erich, you formulated nicely all points where
I had no time to go into more detail.

Thanks.

I fully agree with your view.


BTW: Let's make sure we have all discussions on
"[hidden email]" and not on the announce
list. This was my mistake in the first place, just
hitting list reply.


-- Raoul

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