[nmh-workers] nmh sources

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[nmh-workers] nmh sources

Norman Shapiro-3
I have acquired a new computer running ubantu.  So I need to install nmh on
it. But I have forgotten how to get the sources. Can somebody please help
me.
    Norman Shapiro

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Re: nmh sources

Norman Shapiro-3
[hidden email] writes:
>I have acquired a new computer running ubantu.  So I need to install nmh on
>it. But I have forgotten how to get the sources. Can somebody please help
>me.
>Norman Shapiro

Never mind, I have it.
    Norman Shapiro

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Re: nmh sources

Ken Hornstein-2
In reply to this post by Norman Shapiro-3
>I have acquired a new computer running ubantu.  So I need to install nmh on
>it. But I have forgotten how to get the sources. Can somebody please help
>me.

I know you found it already, Norm, but it looks like nmh is available
as a package on Ubuntu (I don't know the details of how packages work
on there, though).

--Ken

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Re: nmh sources

Paul Fox-3
ken wrote:
 > >I have acquired a new computer running ubantu.  So I need to install nmh on
 > >it. But I have forgotten how to get the sources. Can somebody please help
 > >me.
 >
 > I know you found it already, Norm, but it looks like nmh is available
 > as a package on Ubuntu (I don't know the details of how packages work
 > on there, though).

sudo apt install nmh

=----------------------
paul fox, [hidden email] (arlington, ma, where it's 50.4 degrees)


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Re: nmh sourcesfile:///home/norm/Desktop/repl.desktop

Norman Shapiro-3
In reply to this post by Ken Hornstein-2
Ken Hornstein <[hidden email]> writes:
>>I have acquired a new computer running ubantu.  So I need to install nmh on
>>it. But I have forgotten how to get the sources. Can somebody please help
>>me.
>
>I know you found it already, Norm, but it looks like nmh is available
>as a package on Ubuntu (I don't know the details of how packages work
>on there, though).

Yes, its seems to be there. Thank you.

But I don't know with what value for --prefix it was configured. Does anybody
know?


    Norman Shapiro

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Re: nmh sourcesfile:///home/norm/Desktop/repl.desktop

Ralph Corderoy
Hi Norm,

> But I don't know with what value for --prefix it was configured.
> Does anybody know?

‘dpkg -L nmh’ will list the installed files for the package you've
installed on your version of Ubuntu.

https://packages.ubuntu.com/disco/amd64/nmh/filelist is a list of files
for the nmh amd64 package on 19.04.  inc(1), etc., are in /usr/bin/mh if
you're looking to adjust your path.

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Re: nmh sourcesfile:///home/norm/Desktop/repl.desktop

Alexander Zangerl-4
In reply to this post by Norman Shapiro-3
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 13:01:10 -0700, [hidden email] writes:
>But I don't know with what value for --prefix it was configured. Does
>anybody know?

looks like ubuntu is reusing debian packages of nmh, and i'm the maintainer
of that. nmh in debian (and thus ubuntu) is configured to meat the debian
policy wrt. file locations, ie. with a configure invocation of

--prefix= \
--bindir='$${prefix}/usr/bin/mh' \
---sysconfdir='$${prefix}/etc' \
--libdir='$${prefix}/usr/lib' \
--mandir='$${prefix}/usr/share/man' \
--docdir='$${prefix}/usr/share/doc/nmh' \
--libexecdir='$${prefix}/usr/lib/mh' \
--with-tls \
--with-mts=sendmail/pipe \
--with-cyrus-sasl \
--with-oauth

regards
az


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[nmh-workers] sendmail/pipe default config?

David Levine-3
az writes:

> ie. with a configure invocation of

> ---sysconfdir='$${prefix}/etc' \

I assume that 3 dashes there is a typo.

> --with-mts=sendmail/pipe \

Is that the best choice for a default configuration?  It's easy
enough for the user to override, but with this default they
lose support for Dcc.

Re. sendmail/pipe, are these comments in post.c still valid?

    /* This won't work with MTS_SENDMAIL_PIPE. */
    verify_all_addresses (1, eai, envelope, oauth_flag, auth_svc);

and

    if (sm_mts != MTS_SENDMAIL_PIPE) {
        /* It would be nice to have support to call
           verify_all_addresses with MTS_SENDMAIL_PIPE, but
           that might require running sendmail as root.  Note
           that spost didn't verify addresses. */
        verify_all_addresses (verbose, eai, envelope, oauth_flag,
                              auth_svc);
    }

verify_all_addresses() works for me with sendmail/pipe (on Linux).

David

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Re: sendmail/pipe default config?

David Levine-3
I wrote:

> verify_all_addresses() works for me with sendmail/pipe (on Linux).

That's because it (-whom) uses SMTP, as if sendmail/smtp was specified,
even if sendmail/pipe was specified.  I'll update the comments to
something like:

    /* Note that this will use fork and call sendmail directly,  using
       SMTP, (sendmail/smtp) even if sendmail/pipe is specified.
       Not using SMTP might not work because:
         Notice: -bv may give misleading output for non-privileged user */
    verify_all_addresses (1, eai, envelope, oauth_flag, auth_svc);

    if (msgflags & MVIS) {
        if (sm_mts != MTS_SENDMAIL_PIPE) {
            /* Addresses aren't verified with sendmail/pipe because
               spost didn't.  They could be because verify_all_address()
               uses SMTP, see above. */
            verify_all_addresses (verbose, eai, envelope, oauth_flag,
                                  auth_svc);
        }
        post (tmpfil, 0, verbose, eai, envelope, oauth_flag, auth_svc);
    }

Unless there's interest in enabling that verify_all_addresses() call
with sendmail/pipe?

David

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Re: sendmail/pipe default config?

Alexander Zangerl-4
In reply to this post by David Levine-3
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:20:11 -0400, David Levine writes:
>> ---sysconfdir='$${prefix}/etc' \
>I assume that 3 dashes there is a typo.

indeed, cut and paste issue.

>> --with-mts=sendmail/pipe \
>
>Is that the best choice for a default configuration?

it's been that way since 2003 when somebody complained about
smtp as default (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=152729);
personally i prefer pipe for submission and nobody asked for a different
default yet, hence...

>Re. sendmail/pipe, are these comments in post.c still valid?
>
>    /* This won't work with MTS_SENDMAIL_PIPE. */
>    verify_all_addresses (1, eai, envelope, oauth_flag, auth_svc);

as far as i can tell yes, because verify_all_addresses uses do_an_address which
uses sm_wadr which talks smtp.

>        /* It would be nice to have support to call
>           verify_all_addresses with MTS_SENDMAIL_PIPE, but
>           that might require running sendmail as root.  Note
>           that spost didn't verify addresses. */

this idea would also not work for postfix: its sendmail
emulation wrapper does have a '-bv' option, but one which never responds
to the invoking process (like real sendmail does); instead postfix
sends an email report back after verifying each recipient address.

personally i think spending any further effort on verifying addresses for
deliverability on the sending side is wasted because of how little
verification/guarantee it provides (see bugs section in man whom).

regards
az


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And God spoke: There shall be packets.
And there were packets, and these packets were good, mostly. -- G.S. Granados

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Re: sendmail/pipe default config?

David Levine-3
az writes:

> it's been that way since 2003 when somebody complained about
> smtp as default (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=152729);

That issue was about submitting using smtpd versus directly to sendmail.
Using the nmh sendmail/smtp mts would invoke sendmail directly, as
requested, simply using the smtp protocol.

sendmail/pipe uses sendmail -t, which causes sendmail to read the
addresses from the draft.  Its sole purpose is to replace the obsolete and
undocumented mh spost.  I don't think that sendmail/pipe offers any
advantage here over sendmail/smtp, and has the disadvantage that
sendmail/pipe does not support Dcc:.

> >Re. sendmail/pipe, are these comments in post.c still valid?
> >
> >    /* This won't work with MTS_SENDMAIL_PIPE. */
> >    verify_all_addresses (1, eai, envelope, oauth_flag, auth_svc);
>
> as far as i can tell yes, because verify_all_addresses uses do_an_address which
> uses sm_wadr which talks smtp.

Right, so verify_all_addresses() does work when the user has specified
sendmail/pipe, though it uses sendmail/smtp, in effect, here.  I'll update
the comment.

> personally i think spending any further effort on verifying addresses for
> deliverability on the sending side is wasted because of how little
> verification/guarantee it provides (see bugs section in man whom).

Good point.  I find "whom -check" to be useless or even misleading.

David

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Re: sendmail/pipe default config?

Valdis Klētnieks
In reply to this post by Alexander Zangerl-4
On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 12:11:03 +1000, Alexander Zangerl said:

> personally i think spending any further effort on verifying addresses for
> deliverability on the sending side is wasted because of how little
> verification/guarantee it provides (see bugs section in man whom).

The only thing I've ever used 'whom' for is to verify that it picked the
right Mike out of .mh_alias, or to see what the aliases expanded to. I've
never expected any further validation than "this is a syntactically correct
address", and wasn't even really aware that it *would* do further attempts
at verification.  But then, it's been 2 decades since I've actually used 'whom'
on a system where validating the actual addresses was feasible.

Does 'whom -check' have any real relevance in today's world?


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Re: sendmail/pipe default config?

Ken Hornstein-2
>Does 'whom -check' have any real relevance in today's world?

It probably has a LITTLE relevance.  If I use it I find that I can use
it to check if local email addresses are valid (when I'm submitting to
my work mail server).  However, I never use that myself and I realize
that the usage case is so small that I can't really justify keeping it.
If someone else wants to kill it, I won't object.

--Ken

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Re: sendmail/pipe default config?

Ralph Corderoy
Hi Ken,

> > Does 'whom -check' have any real relevance in today's world?
>
> It probably has a LITTLE relevance.  If I use it I find that I can use
> it to check if local email addresses are valid (when I'm submitting to
> my work mail server).  However, I never use that myself and I realize
> that the usage case is so small that I can't really justify keeping
> it.  If someone else wants to kill it, I won't object.

    $ g whom ~/.mh_profile
    whom: -check
    $

My finger muscles know to use it before every send.

I'd like it to be able to perform more checks, and to display its output
in a better format.

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Re: sendmail/pipe default config?

Ken Hornstein-2
>I'd like it to be able to perform more checks, and to display its output
>in a better format.

Well ... what are the more checks you would like it to do?  I am not sure
what all is possible in this day and age.

But, in regards to "better format" ... I was thinking that it could be used
as part of the tooling for encrypting email.  Since post does alias
expansion it would make sense that we could use it to get a list of envelope
recipients.  You could provide a switch like -format to give it a mh-format
string to be run on every address.

--Ken

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Re: nmh sourcesfile:///home/norm/Desktop/repl.desktop

Norman Shapiro-3
In reply to this post by Alexander Zangerl-4
Alexander Zangerl <[hidden email]> writes:

>------------=_1571475271-8578-2
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 13:01:10 -0700, [hidden email] writes:
>>But I don't know with what value for --prefix it was configured. Does
>>anybody know?
>
>looks like ubuntu is reusing debian packages of nmh, and i'm the maintainer
>of that. nmh in debian (and thus ubuntu) is configured to meat the debian
>policy wrt. file locations, ie. with a configure invocation of
>
>--prefix= \
>--bindir='$${prefix}/usr/bin/mh' \
>---sysconfdir='$${prefix}/etc' \
>--libdir='$${prefix}/usr/lib' \
>--mandir='$${prefix}/usr/share/man' \
>--docdir='$${prefix}/usr/share/doc/nmh' \
>--libexecdir='$${prefix}/usr/lib/mh' \
>--with-tls \
>--with-mts=sendmail/pipe \
>--with-cyrus-sasl \
>--with-oauth
>
>regards
>az


I am probably doing something wrong. When I try

     comp -e prompter

I get:

comp: error while loading shared libraries: libreadline.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

What I am doing wrong?

    Norman Shapiro

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Re: nmh sourcesfile:///home/norm/Desktop/repl.desktop

Ralph Corderoy
Hi Norm,

> I am probably doing something wrong. When I try
>
>      comp -e prompter
>
> I get:
>
> comp: error while loading shared libraries: libreadline.so.6: cannot
>     open shared object file: No such file or directory

It's probable that the nmh package fails to list a dependency to acquire
libreadline.  Depending on your version of Ubuntu, different versions of
libreadline are availble.  The error above has a `6' meaning the nmh
you're running was built to expect package libreadline6.

https://packages.ubuntu.com provides various ways to search Ubuntu's
packages, e.g. what packages provide a file with libreadline somewhere
in its name.  `lsb_release -a' will show the version of Ubuntu that
you're running.

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Re: nmh sourcesfile:///home/norm/Desktop/repl.desktop

David Levine-3
In reply to this post by Norman Shapiro-3
Norm writes:

> comp: error while loading shared libraries: libreadline.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
>
> What I am doing wrong?

Nothing.  Either the nmh package for the version of Ubuntu you're using
needs to be rebuilt, or you need to install a libreadline6 package.  I
took a quick look and didn't find one, but I don't use Ubuntu.

In the meantime, if you want to build nmh yourself from scratch, run:

  wget http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/nmh.git/plain/build_nmh &&
  sh build_nmh -iv

Respond to the prompts, the first is the install directory.  The rest
probably have good defaults.

David

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Re: nmh sourcesfile:///home/norm/Desktop/repl.desktop

Norman Shapiro-3
David Levine <[hidden email]> writes:

>Norm writes:
>
>> comp: error while loading shared libraries: libreadline.so.6: cannot ope=
>n shared object file: No such file or directory
>>
>> What I am doing wrong?
>
>Nothing.  Either the nmh package for the version of Ubuntu you're using
>needs to be rebuilt, or you need to install a libreadline6 package.  I
>took a quick look and didn't find one, but I don't use Ubuntu.
>
>In the meantime, if you want to build nmh yourself from scratch, run:
>
>wget http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/nmh.git/plain/build_nmh &&
>sh build_nmh -iv
>
>Respond to the prompts, the first is the install directory.  The rest
>probably have good defaults.
>
I would prefer that. It gives me more control over where files go and
it would allow me to keep up with intermediate nmh versions.

I tried it. I get a "build failed". I am attaching the build log.

    Norman Shapiro

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Re: nmh sourcesfile:///home/norm/Desktop/repl.desktop

Ken Hornstein-2
>+ autoreconf -v -i
./autogen.sh: 14: ./autogen.sh: autoreconf: not found
>build_nmh: autogen failed, see MACHINES file for autoconf, automake,
>flex, and bison requirements

If you're building from a git checkout, you'll need autoconf, automake,
flex, and bison (this is documented in MACHINES, like the message says).

--Ken

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